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Ep 17 Transcript
We acknowledge the Yuggera and Kaurna nations as traditional custodians of the land on which we work, live and learn, and their continuing connection with the land waters and community.
We pay our respects to them and their elders past and present.
All content related to this program is for general informational purposes only and contains stories and discussions around mental health that may be disturbing to some listeners.
If you’re concerned about yourself or someone you know, please seek professional individual advice and support.
More details are contained in our show notes.
Thanks for calling your call is important to us.
An assessor from the Federal Office for Deconstruction and Dream busting will be with you soon.
We know it can be frustrating waiting for a long time, but remember our assessors are people too and they deserve your respect.
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Federal Office for Deconstruction and Dream busting.
Hi, my name is hopeful and I’m calling to check on a grant application I made for my new business.
Hopefully, yeah, I think I’m gonna be your application.
Yep, here we go.
You’re starting a business taking elderly clients.
Out on day trips.
Yes, changing environment does wonders for people.
And just because we get older doesn’t mean we don’t still like to visit the places we’ve always loved.
Not really sure this.
Is going to be a winning idea?
To be honest but.
Sure, market phidias.
Why wouldn’t the families just?
Take them out.
Well, it’s not always.
As simple as that.
Sometimes the family members aren’t able to take their loved ones out.
Because they’re working on.
Has the conversation going to go when you walked up to someone and say hey I can see you neglecting your mum?
Let me take her out to the beach.
Just like that.
Paying for these day trips.
Well, the client would pay heavily subsidized fee.
Right, so you want the government to pay you to take old people.
To the beach.
Well, when you put it like that.
We’re not going to be able to support you on this one, but do apply a game when he come up with a.
More innovative idea.
Thanks for calling.
Federal Office for Deconstruction and Dream busting, sinning speaking.
Hi, I’m ambitious and I’m calling to.
Hang on, I’ll grab your file.
OK, you want to start?
An ebook business.
It’s being done.
Well, kind of.
But my ebooks are interactive, so it’s never been done like this before.
Yeah, there’s probably a good reason for that.
Look, I sent a link to the prototype.
I don’t see how this is any better than.
What’s already out there images?
In the evil people.
Accessibility for blind people and the links open up detailed learning sections.
You’ve just described an audio book and a quick Google search.
This seems like unnecessary innovation.
I’ll send your rejection letter this afternoon.
Thanks for calling.
Federal Office for Deconstruction and Dream busting, cynics speaking.
Hey, I’m confident and after my last rejection I took on all the feedback from the assessor and submitted my new idea, but I just haven’t heard anything yet.
I can see you now want to start a business for an eco friendly mobile car wash.
Yes, that’s not exactly innovative.
Well, the last access that said to come back with something unique but not totally out there.
Plenty of people get their car washed.
I don’t think people who are looking for this kind of convenience are really going to care if it’s environmentally friendly.
There’s nothing more eco friendly than rain, after all.
Why would they pay for something they can get for free?
But I’ve done my research and plenty of people want an eco friendly option that just isn’t available in the market.
Look, I can appreciate where you’re coming from, but sometimes in life you just have to be careful who you listen to and where you get your information from.
I conducted market research and acted on advice from somebody in your department.
I’ve already taken at a business loan and people are interested in taking out a franchise.
I just need an extra hand.
For some of the setup costs that my loan won’t cover, but everyone is on board.
Well dreaming is free confident you would be the first person to make a magic spreadsheet on how much money they could make him come to us saying.
What a great idea they’ve got look.
But the bank.
I don’t review decisions, but if you want I can flag this one for our review officers.
Well, I would very much appreciate that.
No need to get anti confident you’ll get a confirmation over this afternoon.
On the review outcome.
No, no no.
I’ll send you a letter to confirm that your rejection will be reviewed within the.
Next six months.
He’s just going to have to.
Look at some other ways if you want to move any quicker, we’ll be in touch.
Thanks for your call.
Man, I hate this job.
I should just start.
My own business.
Ever feel like you can’t win in the battle for someone elses opinion?
We’ve been walking this path together for just over a year now.
Andy, and it feels like we’re getting some good traction in a business sense.
Now, yeah, I mean one through able to get out of our own way and find the beliefs that supporters instead of whatever old beliefs we had about ourselves the right doors.
Just started to open.
And our whole story keeps falling into place even as we record fresh episodes that reminded us of wisdom people shared with us 12 months ago.
It is the gift that keeps on giving.
Here is this is re frame of mind.
The podcast that cuts through the platitudes and gets to the core of living, authentically challenging our assumptions and improving mental health with the guidance of good science, philosophy and learning from other people lived experiences.
And where you are.
Hosts Andy Leroy and Lewis Pool, you know as we go through life and try new things, we do push out of our comfort zone and so it’s natural to want to check in with others and even.
Bounce ideas off people that we love.
And trust yet.
Yeah, it’s uncomfortable out of that comfort zone, isn’t it?
But isn’t it hard when we do run an idea past somebody they can’t see our vision and then the comments that we were hoping for.
Or instead at a cheap to armor.
Now in the last episode we spoke to Teacher Rose who was diagnosed with Ms at age 22 and she’s more recently been diagnosed with breast cancer.
You know, in the face of these health challenges, Tasha amazing teacher has remained adamant that her story is one that can help other people to jump whatever hurdles are placed in front of them wherever they are during life.
And what she had to say basically was that that starts by blocking out other people negatively.
You have to block out negative comments.
You have to have a real inner confidence that the decisions you make are right for your journey.
So we’re on a journey.
Uhm 17 episodes into re frame of mind.
A series that we started putting together last year at the same time we started putting our business together.
And it was at a.
Time where six months or so after your dad passed away, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s funny, isn’t it?
Because grief counselors will generally say look, you know, for a good chunk of time after you’ve lost somebody important to you, don’t make any major decisions.
OK, so I’m just gonna.
Make a business.
Fish like leaving.
Your job and starting a business with me calling.
Yeah, and then.
You haven’t seen him.
And then making a podcast about your experience of grief.
Great, OK, not major at all.
It’s just that minor thing.
Yeah, I think at that time we were both feeling grief like in different way.
I think grief can manifest in all sorts of different ways.
For me, it was ending a 20 year radio career that had that grief response in.
It because I.
I suppose it was a 20 year relationship.
You know when you think about it.
He was you spent all of your days and most of your nights with that partner.
I did and you know one of those old industry sayings used to be your only as good as your last gig.
Ah yeah, that’s a lot of ship.
To be on.
Just like but it just goes to show you like.
Well with me.
In the situation I was in with my dad having passed and then the stuff that happened within my family afterwards.
New you know ending that career of 20 years and then going through, you know essentially psychological trauma around all of that and everything that was associated with it just goes to show that.
Everybody has got something going on or they choose to share that openly or not.
Yeah, and there’s always going to be somebody nearby who is willing and able to confirm your worst internalized.
Oh, you bet.
Just dreaming big and you should take a.
More sensible route.
One of the takeaways we got from the conversation with teacher was that you have to be prepared to leave behind other peoples opinions and perceptions about your capacity.
If you want to move forward, you have to push the mute button on those comments.
That might hold you back before you even try.
One story teacher told us was about a nurse in the hospital.
He told her that she was actually in denial because of her positive outlook.
If anyone engaged like that, I’d just like, Yep, fine, thanks.
You know, I just shut it down because it just wasn’t helpful for me.
I just and a game that wasn’t denying what my experience was like.
I had a nurse once saying I think, you know talking, or I think you know she might be in denial and like I’m lying here unable to move.
No denying that, but I’m just not going to deal with it in the way you think I should.
Yeah, it’s you do have to be really strong.
You really have to block out what other people are thinking.
And really, yeah, have that inner confidence.
So I’m sensing a common theme band do.
Yeah, we found plenty of those then then actually worked.
Interviewing people and re editing them and come here.
With this story.
So I think this is a good opportunity for us now Andy to get in there and deconstruct some of those beliefs that have.
Been holding us back.
Yeah, maybe it’s time we really and truly stopped caring so much about other peoples perceptions and learn to value our own judgment instead of always putting other peoples opinions and our.
Own and Derek McManus, who we spoke to in an earlier episode of re frame of Mind.
He was a police officer who was shot in the line of duty.
He experienced this when he wanted to return.
For work and other people stood in his way.
Because I prepared myself so well, I believe I didn’t experience the post traumatic stress.
I’d already dealt with it beforehand.
If this happens, I know what I’m gonna manage.
I I know what I need to manage.
This is what I’m going to experience.
I’ve got the skills to to be able to manage that, and let’s go and take the risk and and manage the risks.
I’ve never actually experienced PTSD in relation to the shooting my management and I’m trying to be very politically careful here and how afraid.
This is some of the managers at work didn’t manage me returning to work as well as what I would have liked.
They were putting up road blocks like I’ve been cleared by the psychiatrist a couple of times because I I did go back for.
Review and just.
Check in to make sure everything was OK and and he again cleared me.
I’ve also been cleared by.
Occupational therapists, nurses, and doctors, and all sorts of people physically to go back to work.
And despite all that, there were still people who couldn’t understand somebody being shot 14 times.
They’ve been through that trauma.
They can’t come back into star group and be in.
Star group again.
It didn’t make sense to them, so they were putting up road blocks.
But I didn’t see that they were putting up roadblocks.
I just couldn’t understand why they wouldn’t let me pass the tests.
So we can be prone to being affected by what other people say about us, but we’ve probably conditioned ourselves to perceive negative things about what others might think of us before we even offer an opinion.
And Susan Mercier impostor syndrome expert and author told us how some of our perceptions might actually come from how we view ourselves compared to others.
Probably the biggest.
Thing is that we will tend to give more credence to somebody externally then we will to our own judgment.
We allow somebody else to define whether we’re good enough, whether we deserve something, that sort of thing instead of deciding for ourselves whether we did something well, always can improve, but you know whether we did it well or not.
My first instinct is that we’re taught to put other people before us.
That’s part of the way, and again, gross generalization is part of the way that we brought up.
We sort of tend to.
Have a far more external flow.
Focus to make sure other people are OK.
Well, for now we’re the worst critic that we could possibly have and other people you know would never see us that way.
And if we treated other people the way that we treat ourselves, it wouldn’t have very many friends.
So it’s really looking at here that whole that whole self compassion, like you know, I don’t have to be perfect.
I am good enough and one of the things I get my cousin.
For my clients to do his mirror work, which is pretty challenging to stand in front of the mirror in whatever state of dress or undress you want to and and just start to look at yourself and say I’m I love you, I’m your amazing.
I think you’re fantastic and it doesn’t mean that you’re better than anybody else.
’cause it’s not a comparison thing.
We’re all perfect in in our imperfection.
Time for some trauma, Andy.
Yeah, it’s a trauma dump trauma dump.
Lately is that the theme song for trauma done?
Yeah, yeah it’s a trauma DOB.
Sounds like we’re about to host a game show coming up next on Louise and Andy Trauma.
Ha ha, that’s the next sketch.
Wheel of trauma and.
I think if we are using this episode to deconstruct why we should no longer care about what other people think of us.
Dive right in there.
We we probably have to call ourselves out on all the things that we’ve cared about.
How other people have thought of us and how.
That’s influenced us, right?
I just thought of something really clever you’re about to jump in the pool.
Why is that clever?
Because his last name is.
Cool yeah but.
Are you better jump into it anyway?
No, I don’t understand what I’m.
He was clever in my mind, that’s OK.
Doesn’t have to be clever to you.
It’s as good as your analogies.
Thank you, I thought so.
We kinda have to go back to the things that have made us care about what other people think of us and the stuff we’re still holding onto.
Of course, we do tend to hold on to stuff like a hoarder.
If I was a museum, here comes an analogy.
I would be chock full of stuff that should have been thrown out years ago, so I think we should ease into this because there’s going to be just stuff.
I think that comes up later in the program.
He’s into that former I.
That’s going to make us cry and going to make us angry.
I don’t want to cry.
Again on this show.
No, I don’t want to try.
I that this is going to be a fun program.
You know, like stuff that can be pretty innocuous, you know, because there’s a lot of stuff that we could potentially talk about straight off the bat, that’s going to get us into funding the patriarchy straight off.
And I don’t think either of us are there yet.
And quite frankly, I don’t think I trillions are either.
So let’s just talk about something simple.
What about off the cuff comments that people make OK?
Sure, so we’re starting a business.
Yeah, we’re starting the business.
I told my mother.
What our business idea was, you know, we’re going to get business.
We’re going to make podcasts and she laughed at me.
Oh well, thank you Mrs Poole.
Ha ha ha.
With my IDC.
Oh man, that’s posh.
She probably didn’t mean to laugh, it was it wasn’t like.
Huh? They never do.
Ha ha ha you *******
Idiot, it was like OK so.
You be you be me.
And I’ll I’ll be mum, OK?
Hello hello mum.
Wah Wah wah.
Can I come in?
Yeah, I don’t know why you’re coming in, though we’re on the phone.
You just need to change to.
Change your ringtone.
It sounds like a door.
Oh hello hello there, have you got a?
Oh well, no. I
Come up with a business idea.
I’m actually going to start a business.
Oh yes, I did business, yeah?
I don’t know if.
Yeah, I don’t know if you remember like years ago when I was working in Darwin I had the.
Colleague called Andy and.
I don’t remember ’cause you never.
Told me anything now, yeah.
Oh, probably, and you know how terrible stuff anyway.
So anyway, I used to work with Andy and Darwin and we’re actually going to start a business together.
Oh yeah, OK, yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
What are you gonna do?
Well, we’re going to make content.
For people at night.
So sorry to paint the fight for that.
Make make contact with him.
How you gonna make?
Money from that.
Well, people do pay you for that and then also people out there making money out of making things like podcasts and and doing things on social media.
So yeah, yeah, it’s actually a very quite legitimate business.
How are the?
Cats the cats good yeah cats are good.
Cuts ifying buildings, a bit sick, but you know.
Answer Dog dogs good.
Yep, Yep, just great.
Yeah yeah idea, stop it.
I’m gonna let you go.
Ah yeah, OK, alright bye.
Well, that went well.
How is ******* harsh for but like I’m.
I’m pretty sure she doesn’t listen.
To the podcast but.
We’ll know, we’ll know.
We’ll more after that, haha.
Ah, this is cool.
Love you mum.
She did, she didn’t.
She didn’t mean.
For it to.
She I know she didn’t.
Mean to laugh at my business idea?
But the thing?
It hurt it was it was a.
It was a gut instinct that she kinda had because.
Hello, I don’t know if it was ’cause it was my.
Idea or because I’ve.
Him, I don’t know, but it.
It it felt like she definitely didn’t believe in me and I.
Would say it’s.
On it’s still a thing considering where most every conversation is about your real job yet so.
Yeah yeah, look not being a parent myself, I don’t know whether that maybe is the thing that parents do in general to their.
Kids because they.
Have certain dreams set up in their mind for what their kid might do and when the kid comes and says I’m going to be.
I don’t know a fireman though.
Oh no, ’cause I’m employed.
Like when I said to my dad years ago when I quit my science.
Degree ’cause I hated.
It I hated it.
I said to him, I actually want to be an actor anyway.
Are we sorry?
Are we going?
To reenact your dad here.
I don’t think we need to.
I think I just did.
I don’t know.
Maybe it’s one of those things that parents do like.
I remember even when I.
Was about 10.
And we’re driving Grandma home and the conversation was like, oh, what do you wanna be when you grow up and I went oh, I think I want to be a teacher.
Actually, I think I’d really like to be a.
Teacher and she said, oh, you don’t.
Need one of them.
They don’t get paid very much.
Maybe it’s just one of.
Those hereditary dream busting genes that come down the chain.
Yeah, maybe you.
Maybe your grandma had a job at the Federal Department of Dream busting and whatever.
What was it called?
Ha ha ha.
Yeah yeah, the federal department forward for.
Deconstruction and dream busting yeah.
Yes, I think that was what she was moonlighting in her spare time do.
Grandma could have actually managed that place on her ear.
You know whatever.
Not to distract from your story of people not believing in you with a story of mine of people not believing.
Me, but I OK had a big thing for music like loved music, loved listening to the radio when I was a kid.
Had my little.
But my ghetto blaster.
I have my ghetto blaster which I don’t know now.
I’m saying those words.
Out loud is actually probably offensive.
Kind of dates, you need FHL, yeah?
Me, but yeah, it was my.
It was a cassette player.
It wasn’t even a CD player and it had my 2 speakers and I carried it around and it took like double D batteries like it took a whole heap of double D batteries.
Did you carry it around?
On your shoulder.
That was in the day before headphone.
But I used to take it with.
Me everywhere ’cause he’s listen to the radio used to listen to my salt and pepper CD.
My salt and pepper cassettes.
My boys to men cassettes and ghettoblaster, which now I think about it is really.
Racist and my father said.
Would always say we’re doing taking it with you, you know, listening to music he’s not never going to figure him out to anything like you’re never gonna.
What’s just wasting your time doing that.
Well hello Miss music producer for commercial radio.
I did become a music director guys.
I did become a music director also, sorry.
Well, I’m still shooting on my parents in this.
I used to have a lot of things taped.
On VHS, ’cause.
It was VHS when I was a.
Kid and I used to.
Watch like all my favorite.
Movies and stuff on VHS.
And so I had too many.
I used to watch him all the time and I came home.
I think from school one day and they’d all been thrown out.
And any others because or taped over.
Oh my gosh.
Can you believe they taped over?
One of my movies with like a Royal Tattoo special, right?
Like it was like the Edinburgh.
Royal tattoo like they taped.
And it wasn’t even tattoo from Fantasy Island.
Like like they taped over I.
Don’t know Chitty Chitty Bang Bang with the robots, I know.
It’s on me so.
Anyway, I said well, I’m so upset where all my times or like types or watching all this TV is never going to amount to anything.
The other job I had was watching TV for a living.
Ha ha ha.
There you go 242.
So yeah, have worked in media all my life.
First big job was literally watching TV for a living.
Second job was listening to music.
I think it’s really important you know to come in at that point.
And say that it’s.
Probably not great to listen to everybody.
I mean, we’re not actually saying kids.
Don’t listen to your parents because it’s good to listen to your parents.
Not all the time.
Yeah, I mean you might not actually be saying don’t listen to your parents, but.
I certainly I’m saying don’t listen to your parents.
Would have been.
Helpful for me not to listen to my dad laughing at me with that particular aspiration, but.
I mean, well.
Yet he came good.
Later on though, you know like he would say to me later in life.
Know maybe this.
Will lead to a geek or something like that.
So it all got resolved, but you know there was a teacher that I had in.
High school and after I quit.
The school band that he was building.
Because, you know, I don’t know.
This is another story.
But so I put the bands but me faking to play the baritone sax, yeah?
About you faking to play the trumpet.
That’s it, yes, I knew we were both faking instruments I.
Couldn’t remember yours.
Yeah, yeah yeah I’ll totally faking it.
Someone said to me just do the ********* because you know until he kind of wrote it.
That’s OK, just practice the ********* That’s all I ever did.
Yeah, you never practiced.
With lingering though and that some part of the story later on, yeah.
No, I never did.
I just, I know.
Anyway, I I decided to quit the band because.
It was I didn’t like it and it sounded tacky.
It sounded terrible in my opinion and I’d had enough.
And anyway, at that point this teacher who ran the band also did.
The school productions, obviously, and then said, well, yeah, well you were a sheet actor anyway and blah blah blah.
Like feed off.
This was hugely for my dad.
Laughed at least so.
I’ve got these compounding things as to why I should not do anything a theatrical or, you know, be really creative at all because.
I’ve got, you know the teacher saying I’m sure I’ve got dead laughing at me saying we don’t want to be an actor and you know, all these other competitive things happening in high school as well have may not being as good as my peers who are very competitive in things like English and me.
Then feeling like OK, well, why should I even bother?
Yeah, somebody who didn’t feel very.
Competitive in English, you managed to write.
A novel though.
Yeah, I’ve still got 50 copies of a novella, but I haven’t solved.
You know, like I might have.
Written it and soap.
Published it, but I’d certainly didn’t go ahead and promote.
It load any money by why would anybody want to?
Buy outright little story.
I wrote me 10 years ago.
I mean you.
Could buy it on our Patreon.
Though we’ve got it on for sale, it’ll help Andy move some boxes that’ll.
And and and.
Maybe move some beliefs that you know his work story wasn’t worth reading, which is not true.
Why would I?
Go on and complete 3 full novels.
Into draft form.
If nobody wanted to bribe.
The novella you know, like.
What would he?
I don’t know.
I love writing, you know, I love writing.
You know that I can bang out something pretty quickly and.
Usually you know.
It’s pretty good by both of our opinions.
I don’t kind.
Of Dilly dally too much, I’m pretty efficient.
With the the tool, except for when I.
Write analogies, right?
So what you’re saying is.
That you wrote a novella that.
You self published 10 years ago.
Nine years I haven’t hit the 10 year anniversary.
Yet you didn’t tell anybody.
You barely told anybody who did it.
I barely told anybody I did.
It’s in the library, so you can probably find it in the library.
You can find it on Amazon, but don’t.
Did that despite me directly.
If you’re gonna buy it because I’ll actually.
See the money for it and then after you didn’t tell anybody about the level that novella that you self published, you wrote 3 sequels to it that you.
No, well, actually so.
The first one I wrote, the first novel.
That I wrote was actually a prequel to it.
Oh sorry, it was a.
That’s OK, it was a prequel to the novella.
Prequel yeah, no, that doesn’t make it any better.
Saying it was a prequel, it doesn’t change the fact that you’ve put in all this work into something that is quite good, and what impostor syndrome has come along and said no.
Oh yeah, it’s like when we’re starting the business, you know like to go out and put a book out is actually quite a big feet.
Let’s see that.
Even someone who is published through one of the major publishers.
It’s all cases getting picked up by a publisher and who who suddenly you’re you’re a best selling.
Author they’ve really got.
Work to to promote their book.
They’ve got to do a lot of stuff behind the scenes to get it out there which you know.
I guess it’s normal and.
Anyone in a business?
Got to do, yeah.
So I I just.
I I really enjoyed drafting them.
They really need an edit and it would be great to release than one day.
But I guess you know my my business mind says much.
The cost benefit analysis.
On that, do you really think people?
Want to buy those books?
Do you know what I really enjoyed?
What would you enjoy?
I’m making a whole heap of jewelry and and setting up a business and designing little cards.
Usually is really cute.
You know, that would have things on there and taking photos and doing some social media posts.
And you know, telling people about what I did and it was really cute and really enjoyed that.
I’m guessing it was an amazing success.
Because the jewelry was great.
I enjoyed the part where I made the jewelry and I made the cards and I did the website and I did the social media and that’s where that story ends.
I think I went to one or two things, tried to sell it, didn’t got like one order online.
Got it in like 1 business and I think in the end I just went.
It’s too hard now I have a whole shed full of jewelry.
Literally, it’s like my shed.
Oh well, between woolshed of jewelry and my novellas.
Yeah, oh, we could make quite.
The the bookstore that sells accessories.
We could make a little side business for ourselves.
To the business that is still gaining traction.
I think no.
The thing with the jewelry is I I really did enjoy that.
I battled at the time like I was dating someone who actually in the history of bad people that I’ve dated did say things to me.
Like why would you?
Why would you do that?
Like other people sell this kind of stuff?
Why are you?
Bothering like this is not going to make you a millionaire and it’s like, well, everybody starts with an idea that hasn’t made the millionaire yet.
And maybe the jewelry never was gonna make me a.
Millionaire but oh.
Was Coco Chanel a millionaire when she?
Put her first drop off underperformed.
That probably didn’t help the situation with me believe.
Thing in it.
I enjoyed making it.
I’m a very creative person.
I actually really enjoyed gluing all the bits together and kind of putting that together and then when it comes to the telling people.
About it got really.
Overwhelming really quickly because I wasn’t seeing immediate results.
I didn’t hit publish on my website and suddenly was overrun with orders.
It was, you know.
Much like it is in getting listens for a podcast and they start when you don’t have a big network behind you, it’s a grind every listener because.
And every business is unique.
Every business is.
Unlike anything in jail.
A grind until it kind of gets enough momentum, but it’s not.
’til yeah other people start doing the work for you, but you’ve got to put in a lot.
Of work before you get there.
And so my shed is full of.
Little 20 cat earrings and necklaces that look like sushi and I think some records rock and roll records look.
It’s very cute.
Not available for sale.
Could put it on Patreon though.
Carlton, if I can.
Put my novellas on the pastry and you can put your earrings on there.
I could put my shed earrings on Patreon.
Put your shared.
Earrings on Patreon.
They’ve been a little plastic containers, so they should be safe from any flood water.
He didn’t flight, so.
No, I didn’t slope it.
You know the bottom of the shed might have been.
A bit wet.
I tell you what.
On Patreon, we’ll put the earrings from the.
Top of the shed then.
The stuff that.
Was the stuff that was on the top.
How about that?
That is our petrion guarantee.
Undamaged earrings and a copy of the novella.
Yeah, why did we start a business?
Andy why we started a business?
You write novels.
That no one you don’t tell anybody about, and I make jewelry that I.
Don’t tell anybody about.
Well, I think we kind.
Of made this assumption that OK, if there’s somebody doing it with us?
For like a.
Team and we can do it because it’s almost like we’re working for someone else.
That’s kind of the feature I.
Had in my mind anyway.
It’s it could.
Be like I’ll have Louise and I’m.
Kind of reporting to Louise, so it’s just like, uh.
Job and we’ll get stuff done.
We do get stuff done or certainly gathered a lot of evidence of support.
Our beliefs that nobody would want what we do.
Along the way.
We’ve got that done.
Yeah we have.
There’s always an opportunity for that.
Never miss an opportunity.
Never miss an opportunity.
I think we might have done enough shooting on ourselves for this section of the podcast.
True, but uh-huh.
Because a lot of that is to do with our own opinions of ourself and our self worth.
And you know, some of that is definitely beliefs that we’ve picked up from other people.
And you know, people do have the best intentions in mind when they tell us things like that.
You know, don’t waste your time on this because.
Dot dot dot dot dot.
That’s right, that’s right.
Trying to help, it’s just not very.
They’re trying to be helpful.
They want to give some advice so that you don’t make mistakes and don’t end up in a in a flap.
Diminished peloponnes oh, he’s not in a flap, no.
True, he’s not. He was the 2021 Queensland Australian of the Year.
Not enough lap we spoke to.
Him earlier in the series.
He told us he learned some.
Really big lessons about challenging other peoples perceptions.
Dinesh became disabled after a serious car accident when he was studying at university.
But he then went on to become Australia second quadriplegic medical graduate and the first with a spinal cord injury.
One of the things.
That stood out was the challenge you faced around other peoples perceptions of what you’re capable of in this.
Was that something that you didn’t expect when you were actually trying to deal with everything else that you’re dealing with?
There are many facets.
To that, actually, because I could say that before I had the injury, I had no idea what life was like for someone with a disability, right?
So I didn’t know and when I used to look at someone using the blue chat, I’d still OK that that must be difficult having paralysis.
Because you said you see the physical thing.
But the problem goes a lot deeper than that.
There’s problems with lung function.
There’s problems with schemas problem, gastrointestinal function in windows or these other social things like employment and education.
Discrimination that goes on so.
I had no idea about the breadth of the challenges that people face, and I think most people don’t really realize that either.
So when I first had the injury, it suddenly very steep learning curve about all these things that were an issue and even within myself I wasn’t sure what my capabilities.
Would be and I wasn’t sure what I would be able to do.
So even in my own head, I had some doubts about what life would look like and what my capabilities are.
So if I had those doubts, then other people had all these scenes and band lines as well, so I don’t know what people told me even also, my close friends said I think medical school is going to be really hard for you.
I think this journey is probably something that you don’t.
Want to take and we should.
Think about doing something a bit easier so there are a lot of things.
From even people.
Close to me.
That weren’t, so enabling for military anyway.
There’s one thing that is in our lives.
We have so many people having an opinion about what we should do and their social pressures.
This role at the end of the day when we look.
Back at life.
Into the road, there’s only one person who you can hold to account, and that’s you.
Some people have the best in changes for us, but at the same time we think we can appreciate you and we can think about the input because their viewpoints are worth considering.
Because we can learn something from.
I think it’s really important to remember that this is not a rehearsal.
Life is happening and you only get one shot.
We will see time passing by so quickly.
I’d be like Oh my God, how flexible and suddenly you’re a deployment.
Looking back in Oh my God, I’ve missed so much of life so in all those times are the people that told you what to do and what they do.
Are there there?
It’s just you.
So that’s really the.
Or that kept me going because I knew that in a few years or these people they won’t be long and they would just be living their own lives.
So why should I listen to that?
So you could carve out your own advice.
You have to remember that to be happy, truly happy.
We can’t get caught up in the COGS and wheels of society and you can’t get thrown into the passing fancies of the world.
But it was fashionable at the moment.
We just gotta do what makes you happy and what makes you fulfilled.
And to pursue your why, if you do that, I think most of us.
Will end up.
In a pretty good place, and that’s happiness.
So this thing that Danish is saying about finding your wine, doing what makes you happy.
I think both of us probably found that pretty early in life, but the other people opinions jaded that yeah.
And I think.
A lot of the decisions we make are based on opinions about ourselves that we form way way before we want to make these decisions.
You know, they they happen.
It’ll be by bit over.
Years or decades, you know.
Related to our self worth.
Like even people that don’t mean to affect us in negative ways.
I can remember this teacher year to Louise. So what is that 7/8 at most? This is going to. This is going to date me.
No, we don’t need the heart for this.
We need The Time Machine because.
We had tidy trays.
All righty tighty trays I remember tidied raise.
Umm, but ID phrase.
Yeah, get out you still.
Had tidied Redis, go on.
We had tidy trays.
And so we had tidy trays for ourselves and our own staff, but we also had tidy trays to put things away.
So I remember in this one particular class in year two we were doing like arts and craft and.
It’s at the end of the lesson.
The teacher says, you know, go put.
Everything back in.
The tidy trees and so I had.
I was at the straw.
Pile so little they were like 2 centimeter long.
Little red straws.
I know lots of details from my history aren’t very clear.
The one surrounding trauma are apparently there’s figure.
Our neuro scientists can tell us this.
The answers to these?
So I thought if all these straws there was a lot of straws on the table.
If all these straws had to go to the tidy trays on.
The other side.
Of the room.
I could like stick him in my pockets and take more of them over there in one trip ’cause we all know how no one likes to carry 2 bags.
Make two trips for groceries right?
So think of that that withdraws in we’re in year 2.
New year old Louise had an efficiency epiphany.
Right, these plastic straws into the pockets of my little pinafore dress was gingham by the way, little blue gingham number.
So I stopped.
Of course it was.
A zip down the front that the boys used to always undo at lunchtime, which.
It starts early.
Yeah, yeah, but that’s a that’s.
A story for another episode.
So I stuck them in work and I start to walk over I.
Think she saw Mr hang them in my pockets?
And she starts yelling at me in front of everybody in class about how I’m stealing straws.
Why, you know, you’re stealing these straws.
These are for everybody, don’t you shouldn’t be stealing these straws, that’s you know.
What awkward I mean?
I think she was embarrassed at her the wrong call.
Never got to tell her it was a wrong call.
’cause she thought I was stealing straws.
I mean I felt humiliated like I felt so I can.
Of course you did.
I actually telling the story now.
Like honestly, my face still feels a little bit red because this early memory I have is I was I.
I know that I wasn’t doing anything.
Well, I was trying to help but I was embarrassed and humiliated and shamed because.
And then I started to think did not and what was I stealing straws like am I did it what?
He started questioning yourself.
Yeah, what did?
I she ghastly
She gas let me over straws.
I I can so clearly remember this, like I feel ashamed of putting straws in my pocket to take them over to the tidy tray.
I feel ashamed and humiliated by that step.
Well, even though I know I was just trying to find the most efficient way of transporting stuff and also and now that I’m 40 and not seven years old, they were 2 centimeter ******* plastic straws.
Why would anybody want to steal them?
Well, you know, maybe Barbie was thirsty at home.
There was no.
Shortage of plastic straws available in the 80s?
Why would I wanna steal a handful of plastic straws?
Well, maybe he was selling them.
On the black market in the playground.
What from miniature tiny?
Drinks like where your friends snorting dust from the.
Playground through short straws so.
Recess I also now seeing now seeing I’m on my high horse here.
Why was I humiliated for stealing stealing?
Plastic straws where little sucking boys were running around, undoing my front zip and no one called them.
Out I know right?
And you hadn’t even stole them yet in in her story, like you would just put him in your pocket.
I no, I when does the act of stealing happen, right?
It’s like you’d walk out of the store.
Like it’s easiest if you’re walking around the shop and like you put something in your basket.
Is that stealing ’cause it’s?
No longer on the *******
Shelf you you don’t go to ALDI.
You use your.
Reusable bags at ALDI and you start to.
Put like your milk in.
Your risky bag and they.
Go yeah ******* stole that.
Oh, you stole that in the office.
That’s your ******* pag.
And you go grab a boys.
No, you haven’t stolen it till you’ve taken out of the store, have you?
No, what she should have done is if she thought you were stealing, she should have eyeballed you and then you know discreetly because he’s not humiliated him and he’s not doing anything but she could have just observed, like a good teacher would have observed, the behavior and gone.
Actually, that’s really ******* clever.
There’s seven year old.
He’s really ******* clever because she’s actually stuffing these things into her pockets.
To get this done quickly because everybody wants to get the cleanup done quickly, she’s also doing a massive share of the cleanup which.
Is difficult to get kids to do at the best of times, so he’s little Louise stuffing in all of these little 2 centimeters straws.
Into her pockets.
To put into the tray, which she didn’t even.
Get to because of accused her of stealing.
And before she even takes off, she should have actually eyeballed you and then had you not.
And you know what?
Put them in.
The tray and then left when the bell went tapped on the shoulder.
Excuse me, I think you’ve got something in your pocket.
You may say like.
Then would have.
Been the time to do it and also seeing I’m blaming her with things now.
I wish I could remember her name.
But I honestly can’t, I.
Could probably find an old report card and name and shame because that’s a terrible.
He’s a terrible teacher who would say that to someone in need.
But also I’m going to go ahead and blame her for the fact that I hardly ever clean my house now because I got in trouble for doing it once.
Yeah, there you go.
I’m just I’m.
Chitat cleaning because it might get me in.
Trouble exactly, you’re gonna do it wrong and it’s gonna get you in trouble anyway.
Did you get?
Yelled at by a teacher and cause your first.
Memory of shame there Andy.
No, I don’t.
I don’t have any shame stories.
I do remember a teacher in primary school who was very vocal and would sometimes throw chairs in the room, but around the rim three furniture around.
Is it the same one that told you that you wouldn’t be an actor, no?
No, this was years before.
This one would bring kids who are in trouble in front of the class and came them.
In front of the class.
Oh, that’s even worse.
If that was very traumatizing, I’ve spoken to people fairly recently who also had their teacher.
They still traumatized by it.
They they still feel really angry about that period of our lives.
They have a right to feel that way.
Like I mean.
Yeah, yeah, of course you know, like it was scary.
Like I was eight years old in that classroom.
Seeing someone get cleaned and then you know the teacher losing his temper and going with his desk in a pending his desk and throwing your chair across the room and.
Unless so fun, lol.
That was no fun.
Best day ever hashtag hashtag.
Those were the days take me back.
And then I would go home and I would not want to go to school and.
Then Mom would say.
You want to go to school?
Of course, because I’ve got to go to school and then one morning I was going to school into this class.
This is a.
Story that dropped out of nowhere.
I’m going this.
I’m going to spoil.
And then I was upset.
And then she actually written a lower on point to the teacher saying, you know, maybe he needs to swap classes courses and it is all the time.
All that kind of stuff.
So it was my fault.
Obviously dizzy all.
The time really upset, didn’t want to go to school this.
Finally, bit the bullet and knew I had to go.
I turned around to say goodbye to her and her age she picked up like a bit of plastic coated wire that one of the lines went like from Telstra or something.
Had been using or something.
Whips fee on my leg and said.
Guys school and that basically talked me.
Out for a while.
Bit by bit, over years or decades yeah self.
Second worth has been chipped away like the thing I mean.
You know, it’s, I suppose it’s like go to in therapy, you know what what’s caused you to do this and I’m like Oh no father.
But when when you’re when you’re a?
Kid and you.
Of adults who are supposed to look after in whatever position they’re in, and whether they mean to or not.
Don’t consider how they’re reacting with you, and from your mindset and from your formative kind of plastic brain that’s not set yet that so many of these things really embed into.
Our self worth.
And really embed into the stories that we tell ourselves.
Over and over again.
Well, you know like you’ve heard me speak before about how my family would comment about the boosters on the TV or whatever, and you know, so for someone who hasn’t even thought about sexuality, it wasn’t the thing to do in the 80s.
When you’re growing up, you were straight.
You know you’ve got a girlfriend.
You had a root in the Ute, and yet I don’t know, but, uh, pregnant.
Whatever who knows, I don’t know.
Probably not, of course, that’s not here.
My family were being.
Bottom line is that you don’t grow up to be a poofter, you know, because so to contextualize this, this is back in the 80s when I was in high school.
So young, a bit older than.
Louise, I’m 50 so.
But you still had a tidy tray.
I still have that ID triathlete calls and talked, raise their toked Raisin in my school, so I guess now we’re getting to.
A point where and this is.
Not common by any means.
It’s got a long way to go, but there are some places where kids can actually.
Come out as.
Same sex attracted or they can come out as trans or they can come out as gender neutral.
There are different versions of people in the World, Ohio we’re finally recognizing.
That, but in the 1980s when I was.
In high school.
No, so you know that means then that are right to love.
Our way isn’t recognized.
That means that certain rites of passage that my peers caught.
You know having a date and therefore, well, you know that kind of thing.
It wasn’t even on my radar.
I was so depressed I didn’t even realize why I wasn’t attracted to girls.
I just thought I was a late bloomer, so OK.
Yep, normal tragedy girls can’t get a girlfriend.
Almost gold, my mates who also don’t have dates.
They weren’t guy roll them anyway, but you know.
What I mean like that?
Because of these impressions that had formed earlier in life, it took me a long time to actually get comfortable with the fact that I was same sex attracted.
80s as well so that kind of late 80s time we’re talking about that early 90s.
That’s the conversation about AIDS as well.
Became relentless like yeah.
Yes, well that grim Reaper.
Add that everybody is familiar with.
If you’re not familiar with it, you could probably still find it like it’s it’s.
Traumatise yourself all over again, yeah?
That was basically when I was in year seven, so I was 13 years old.
From it was hanging screens and it was traumatizing.
You know, no one wanted to have sex full stop, but especially, you know I’m going to use this word advisedly because he was a word that was used at the time.
But people were calling gaming heat suckers, you know?
And that’s not OK.
Not OK that that was so many ways.
It’s not OK, but you get the point that I’m making is that in that whole context of society at the time, it certainly wasn’t OK for me to be gay.
Everything was telling me that if that was the way I was going to be, there was definitely something wrong with me.
That’s ******* awful, isn’t it?
So here pretty farked.
Fine, it’s ******* awful.
It’s sucking off.
Here it is, but you know I mean there is a happy ending to that because you know, I’m I’m, I’m out and I’m proud and I’ve got a.
I’ve got a same.
Sex partner will go very happy.
Life together but.
I guess there are certain things that.
We will go through in our lives.
That are informed by.
The things they’re exposed to earlier in life, so.
You know, maybe if I’d been born 20 or 30.
Years later, there be other things that would be.
Impacting on me?
Everyone got something.
I suppose they were traumatized by, don’t they?
Maybe I don’t know.
I don’t know, maybe.
I think so.
Maybe there’s actually people out there who had like a flagging fantastic childhood and were loved and supported by everybody around them, and everybody always believed in them.
I don’t know who they are.
He had so getting harder performing because as they age they find their troubles.
Yeah, they remember they.
Traumas and then they do their best not to inflict them on their kids, but here we are in a cycle.
So one of these things were exposed to really feed into a loop and tell us who it’s not OK to be what it’s.
Not OK to be.
If you were not OK to be gay in the 19th from the 80s.
Up with Dom.
You know, I don’t like that word.
I know we could talk with it later.
If you weren’t OK to be a homosexual.
I was not OK to be.
Yeah, I was also fat bitcoins.
You are a fat homosexuals.
Also shows us that.
Set the scene in my.
I’ve got to go back in time time machine for the shame.
The shame machine we should call this like time traveling the shame machine.
It’s shameful shapes.
It was like the hot tub this is.
Like hot tub.
Hot tub, shame machine.
So not long after I stole the straws and had my dress torn down by inappropriate boys and we never called out for it.
Well, there was snorting dust in the playgrounds.
And also at that school someone hit me in the back of the head with a ******* metal monkey bar and split my head.
Open so I know I know my grandfather had to come pick me up and take me to the hospital and I.
Oh my God.
Still have a King David in the back of my head.
Does your school called Wentworth?
You know with those those.
Swing, it’s like the the yeah, yeah like I mean they’re not in playgrounds now because this is in.
The era of tidy trays.
Well, of course kids got their heads cracked open probably.
You grabbed on and then you kind of swung forward and jump off.
Well, I I just jumped off and then like someone grabbed it and ******* swung into.
The back of my head.
All of these are brave enough to jump off, by the way, because I.
Was told I was clumsy, but go ahead.
I also used to jump off the swing sets until, oh.
God no, this is going to be no.
Ah, it’s gonna be an awful moment where I OK, it’s going to tie into fat girl though.
It’s going to tie into fat girl.
I stopped playing on swing sets.
I think when someone said to me that the whole swing set moved when I was swinging and they thought it was going.
To break, yeah, I know.
I know, it’s awful.
Fat girl trauma.
So not long after I had been accused of stealing straws, had my dress pulled down by a boy who snorted straws in the thing got my head cracked open on the monkey bars.
I actually changed schools right fuc?
Between your between year three and year four the the girl who all those things happened to was a thin girl.
Outlet frying pan.
But between you three and four.
I became a fat girl.
I changed schools.
I don’t know, ate too much candy according to someone that we live with at the time and so.
So jealous, obviously.
It was an old.
Lady and she’s not doing too much ******* candy.
Look how fat you are.
Well, look how ugly you are going to die.
You’re gonna die soon.
Bich didn’t leave, you know.
Spiteful ones always lived the longest OK, but so between year three and year 4.
Or it’s the start of picking it on minutes.
Probably came before that anyway, because whatever, but you know that was a time where I think my body shifted and I started taking a lot of criticism from people in my life about putting on weight over the summer.
The I ate too much candy summer so that by the time I started.
Four I was getting so.
Much shame and so much kind of bullying from a home perspective about my body.
And also when I was at this new school as a new school new kid, new Fat Kid people weren’t kind to fat kids in the 90s.
Especially the news had kid.
And so I I copped a lot of abuse and harassment for my body in the vein of.
At what age does?
Events being like 8 or 9 now, huh?
Yeah, I think the first diet I ever went on.
I was probably about 8.
Honestly, I think the.
Some of the timeline of these things is blurred, but you know the amount of times they bought me exercise bikes.
They bought me this weird thing that you used to stand on and the belt went around you and it used to try to vibrate the weight off.
I don’t know like that’s quite an old reference.
Comma I’ll be seeing those in the movies.
Don’t like fun?
And all it did was make me itchy.
There obviously not, yeah.
We had the the heart smart diet that.
I was allowed on.
Had to do the the one that the heart people recommended.
There was the.
Calorie counting everything in the house was diet food.
There was Dhoni don’t eat too much fats.
It was all on basically.
There’s a whole other episode in here about eating disorders and that that’s not this episode.
However, being the fat kid means being judged for your body.
B and not participating in things.
So I recently had to go back and look at all of my old School Report cards for a psychiatrist that I’m seeing for a diagnosis, which is something for a further episode.
You know teaser alert and she wanted me to go back and look for evidence of things earlier in life and one of the things that I noticed.
Consistently, it’s kind of it’s kind of strange.
It’s kind of funny, ironic, strange.
Is you know it starts in like you won like you’re doing sports and PE and it might say things like oh, Louise is what that coordinated needs to try harder, et cetera.
Et cetera, and then I can see how it goes from has got potential needs to try harder to as the years go on, doesn’t want to be involved.
In sport doesn’t want to do this. One of the comments. I think it was from U-9 or U-10.
It said something like Louise needs to realize that if you want to succeed, you have to play as a team because I think I just used to call in, like not call in sick.
But you know, like I used to just continually have injuries that I couldn’t play.
And that wasn’t because I didn’t like sport and it wasn’t ’cause I didn’t like moving.
It was because to play sport as a fat kid came with relentless bullying.
Actually, really loved basketball when I was a kid and I used to play it outside of school, but every time I’d run on the school courts in the short shorts they supplied you with it was here comes fatty fatty boomba right yes.
Yeah, well, you know, like.
Similar experiences like you know, getting picked last for the team all the time.
That kind of thing happens.
It happened to me, but to the point where you have brought a certain stage in high school, I would like you.
I’d avoid having to play sports, so there was actually, you know when they make you try out for the sports and stuff, and so I would dodge that.
I found ways to dodge that.
Of course I did.
Of course, I never wanted to play those team sports and stores a sport.
That was available that I got onto fairly frequently called the Asthma Swimming Club because we just got to basically go to the pool and do a few laps and just splash about in the pool.
That was as much support as I was up for, but it was there for the asthma kids to improve their breathing, and I made the cut ’cause I was fat and I usually.
Exercise, but that was good enough for me.
’cause I didn’t actually want to do spoonwood.
I’m glad you made it into the.
Pool yeah me too.
I didn’t make it into the pool.
I love to swim.
OK, so when I went back through all these old School Report cards, I found a certificate of attainment.
Louise has learned to swim.
Louise has not learned to swim.
I had other ways to.
Get this certificate thing that she’s learned to swim.
I don’t know because Louise has not learned to swim because maybe Louise turned up to the classes, but Louise wouldn’t wear a swimming costume in the pool in front of other kids.
Because if it was bad enough, fat girl running at school carnival then fat girls swimming in a swimsuit was not going to happen.
So no, Louise actually never learned to swim.
Louise learned to float, and Louise can paddle from one side to the other, but certainly has not attained a level of swimming that she should have a certificate for.
Because I didn’t do it.
I think at some point I managed to talk mom into, you know, not letting me go to the swimming lessons anymore, and she probably thought I was lazy.
Sometimes I felt like, you know I was being bullied at school.
For being fat and.
I was being stuck on a diet at home and being told that you know I’m fat and I need to lose weight and I.
Have no worth.
And not that they ever specifically said those words, but that I felt like I.
Well, the actions spoke louder than words, didn’t they?
Yeah, it didn’t have worse.
You know, like you’re winning the awards at school, but yeah.
Unless I was thin, this plays out in other ways.
These are some really formative things, and in retrospect I have to say ’cause I have dug up.
All those things I’ve dug up that photo of that eight year old girl and you know?
What she wasn’t fat.
She wasn’t fat.
She was eight years old.
That’s you know, almost the opposite to what my parents thankfully would say to me when I would say that I’m too fat or whatever.
And you know my parents and their friends.
And so it was just puppy fat.
You lose it.
It wasn’t exactly the healthiest thing to say, but it it wasn’t shaming me for it.
Was, you know, OK, well, you might be.
You might be carrying something.
There, but it’s normal they did.
You know the point of what they were saying was you’re not abnormal, which would have been.
A nice thing for you to hear.
I heard that once actually I had a.
I think it was a.
School counselor or?
A nutritionist or something like that, and this is in high school and she did my weight and she did my height and she said look, yeah, you’re overweight now, but you know if you stay at the same weight that you are now as you kind of grow, have a growth spurt then it’ll all even out.
It’ll be fine.
I can’t remember where my family, I told that too, but.
They laughed so yeah.
And then they said that you know she didn’t know what she was talking.
So to that one person who tried thank you.
Yeah yeah, who tried in the time where people weren’t trying?
But yeah, against a tide of people who think it’s OK to tell children that they’re not good enough.
Against the tide of people who were trying, yes.
So these are things that we carry into adulthood, and if we.
Not just the weight the trimmer.
Well, yeah, I mean the.
I see what you did.
There you know he made light of.
Yeah, I didn’t.
It didn’t you?
I didn’t get taller and get thinner.
I’ll tell you that.
Spoiler alert please.
Look at any excuse for fashion on Instagram.
Which I had, I did think about calling any excuse for fashion as well.
Yeah, you know, like I think that you’ve definitely grown comfortable with with your body image since those days, which is great, you know, because to go through life and feel ashamed of how you look and other aspects.
Any other aspect of who you are or he love?
Yeah over your love yeah.
It’s something that no one.
Should have to do.
And people are very quick to judge, you know, even the ones that mean well.
Even the ones that mean well.
I don’t know.
I think I think one of the times in life we’re going and.
The pilot, I think one of the times people don’t really think about what they’re saying and what effect they could have on other people.
And maybe it’s because they were also fat kids and gay kids, and they were also other in some way.
And they think that now that’s just the way things are.
You’ve gotta not under someone else but give them a reality check so they don’t get hurt.
So OK, my my grandmother on my mom side had a German father. Sounds pretty innocuous when I say it like that in 2000 and.
22 But she was born in 1907, so by the time she was seven years Old World War One, there became a very big push against German people.
Her father was now currently exactly.
He was either almost taken, but there was definitely an internment camp in the area for Germans.
I think he might have been interned.
A little while into that.
That’s something I have to check with my family, but that aside, she was offered as a child because she was of German descent.
Yeah, so I think what happens and I you know, I think this came out in the conversation several episodes back with Sally Goldner is that when we’re being offered sometimes?
What we do is we throw other people under the bus so it takes the attention away from us.
Yeah, and we need to learn not to do that.
We need to learn to be allies for each other rather than find something else that is going to be a distraction.
I mean, we’ve got.
A Prime Minister at the moment that is the king of distractions and it’s really embedded within our culture.
That, well, OK, I might be doing this.
But look over there, look what they’re doing.
Work over here.
Well, don’t look at me.
Look at them, they’re worse.
And then people get quite self-righteous and people can very easily throw other people under the bus who may even be so close to what’s going on for them.
You know, like you have to listen to the to the episode with Sally Goldberg to actually.
Full conversation, but when I was coming out and I was falling friendships within gay circles, it wasn’t uncommon for gay men to say stuff about trans people or for gay women for that matter.
For for people in the gay community as it was called in, you know we’ve got different names and labels now and then.
That’s good, that’s fine, but I’m speaking early 90s so.
You know, I’d hear my gay friends say derogatory stuff about transfer.
At the time, I would think that’s weird because they’re just as prosecuted as us.
Why should they be slandered?
Why should they be made fun of any more than me and I shouldn’t be made funnels so they shouldn’t be made for?
I don’t know, it’s just this funny thing that I was brought up with that you should.
You just shouldn’t be.
An ******* to people.
And she said, yeah yeah, I need this.
People do all the time and yet we will.
We will we do and we do it ourselves unconsciously.
It’s happening within my own family.
I see these patterns and I don’t even think it’s conscious most.
Of the time.
I think we just follow these patterns that we we just absorbed as we grow up and so OK.
Well I’m interviewing with them so that they are the bad people.
So if we can’t stop other people having opinions.
And because we can’t, ’cause we can’t, we cannot stop other people having opinions and we can’t stop other people having their beliefs either.
Whatever we perceive them to.
Be right or wrong.
Much as we’d love to.
Uh, I know.
Like I’m just thinking back to when we recorded our first episode of elevating experts and we asked our partners for their opinion on on the episode.
And they actually actually well.
Shatel over us.
They complemented the opposite person.
Partner but shadow over us not shallow side.
That’s a bit of.
A strong spent but.
Well, you can say shadow basically went well, person B which is you in my case sounded great, bubble wow, but you know you could.
Do with a bit of blah blah.
And then the same reverse happened from your partner at the time to to me.
At the time, at the time at the.
Time I’m still with mine.
So we can’t stop other people from having opinions, even if we don’t agree with them.
Yeah, social media, right?
Yeah, I know like how many times have you kind of gone to hit like the same thing or one of those comment boxes and thought?
I I don’t want to do that.
You know there’s somewhere out there there is.
Somewhere out there there’s a middle aged white man living in his mother’s basement.
There’s a middle age.
So we like to consoles.
In his basement.
Sand in true.
I did a comedy act about that once, but you know, like we’ve.
Yeah, both of those songs very.
They datastax those songs that we just they they date us.
You bet they do.
They do, yeah.
But the point is, we hold ourselves back with this fear of what other people might think, and then say who cares what the trolls got to say?
It’s it’s text on a screen.
We receive them as personal attacks.
We receive them as personal threats and some of them are personal threats and.
That’s the ones that you need to report.
But most of them.
It seem to you bet.
Most of them are just words.
I suggest words.
This sounds like it might be a good time to listen to our chat with Susan Mercier.
Then in episode 8 about the impostor syndrome anti.
Yeah, I mean not only do we experience these things in real life, but think about the range of opinions and attitudes that we’re bombarded with.
When we open our phones every day and we check in on social media or even on news sites or any place where someone can give an opinion basically.
Everywhere that someone gives an opinion which is everywhere.
Everyone got an opinion.
And you know, I’m like one of my favorite quotes that came from a Christmas movie and opinions are like ******** Everyone got one and everyone thinks everyone else is stinks.
So Professor Hugh Kearns from Flinders University pointed out to us in an earlier chat a few episodes back, there comes a point where we need to do something different when it comes to other peoples perceptions.
If you’re if you’re all the briefs, expectations are matter to you.
It’s going to be hard, whereas we go.
No, I like doing it and if you like it, that’s good.
If you don’t, so setting your own plans or expectations.
For are important, but that’s.
A hard one.
In the world where you’re constantly exposed to expectations and this is where social media makes it.
Much harder for.
You as well because.
Now you look at all those other.
On wonderful pots that everybody else did on Instagram.
Or whatever like that.
I think mine.
Aren’t as good.
As that, and so, we’re constantly showing these.
Excellent behaviors or XL?
Outcomes and that’s.
When you have to go look, I’m not worried about.
That I I like doing.
This if you accept it, that’s great.
If not, that’s cool.
I’m going to do it anywhere, but it does require.
You to have.
Sort of a bit of.
More internal focus which is I I will set the expectations of what I like doing.
Not all the other people around me, but it’s it’s a pretty hard when it’s sort of a lifelong challenge to learn.
I think that one.
Well you I.
Think you can pop this whole conversation in the Bragg file, ’cause we’ve enjoyed this thoroughly.
I hope people don’t think I.
Was a fraud or that?
It wasn’t good enough or whatever like that.
Put your credentials up and make sure they definitely work so good.
OK, so it’s been a little while since seen some Professor Joe Fergus from the University of New South Wales called us out on our ******** in Hawaii.
He to be fair to Joe, he didn’t call it ******** We’ve called it ******** because you know, it’s our ******** but.
It is our ******** but what he said that we’ve lovingly called Joe Bombs basically made us hold ourselves to account in some of the beliefs and things that we do and say, you know, like I, I don’t think we ever set out to kind of be these bastion.
Of wisdom and say thou shall not do this, and that’s where we are as flawed as anybody else.
You know, like these stories, that we’re telling, and even some of the actions that we’ve done ourselves have been flawed.
So you know, join the club.
But Jones take on how the Internet has suddenly given everyone a platform really got us thinking.
Well, you know, some people use individualism as a rhetorical device, not not in its proper context, but usually it’s quite transparent.
I mean, you can look at the message and you can see whether it’s a tribal message or an individualist message.
An individualist message is always about the human, the individual, the rights and obligations of the person.
A tribal message is always about a group, and unfortunately those sorts of messages are much more common on the Internet, which is something we haven’t spoken about.
But you might ask yourself, why isn’t the Enlightenment?
Ideology in dict.
Line and one of the possible causes the spread of the Internet.
If you do, I still have time to.
Go into that or.
Yeah, of course, yeah.
Yeah, OK, well I mean the way I think about it is that the Enlightenment was based on the optimistic assumption that human beings can be reasonable, tolerant, rational, and sort out their problems.
Like John Stuart Mill argued.
But what really happened is that only a very small group of highly.
Did you get that people got to have a say in the last 300 years because the media?
Was the domain of people who were well educated to be reasonable and to by and large were capable of functioning according to the requirements of the enlightened person?
What the Internet does is that suddenly everybody has a podium.
Everybody has a forum.
Everybody can say whatever.
They think, and furthermore they can find people who think like them and only listen to them and only speak to them.
And that’s a new development.
And it’s possible that the fact that the communication is no longer the domain of the privileged few but is now open to everybody may yet come to show that Plato was right, that people, if they are all allowed to have a say, will not be very good in writing.
Democracy, and that’s a that’s a boring concept.
So in other words, you could almost say that our technological progress, the you know, the amazing evolution that we created might be the beginning of our own undo.
I’m just going to do a little circuit breaker here and say thank you for listening to us.
If you love the show, let us know.
Hit the subscribe button on your podcast app to show us those five star ratings and able to tell your friends about us and check out Patreon page for access to even more content like extended interviews at patreon.com/re frame of mind.
The more people we get talking about mental.
Health the more supported will all be.
You know, every time I.
Hear a replay that we do with Joe Fergus.
Even bits that.
I wasn’t originally calling Joe Bombs end up being Joe bombs.
Like the gift that keeps on giving.
You know, when we were editing up Joe to put the storyboards together for the episodes I actually didn’t think that the idea of democracy failing was going to be a job bomb that would come.
Back in, you know.
But here we are in 2022. You know that makes me think of the stuff that’s going on in Ukraine, like democracy, literally under attack, and I think literally under attack and Geo bonds keep on given.
Yeah, literally under attack.
They presume in all sorts of ways.
Casino, like we’ve had conversations with people who have said just because they’re going through X doesn’t mean that your little X is any less important.
’cause it’s all contextual so like.
If we bring the.
Job on back to the context of us trying to attract clients.
For example, in very early days with our shiny little episodes called elevating experts.
Available for an increasingly limited time on welcome.
Change media website.
Yeah, we’re very quick to judge that I I’m I’m.
I’m very quick to shoot on that as I think you said earlier in the episode or earlier in the week when I said something about I I I said to.
Many a dump has been laid on the elevator.
I said to our new mentor I said, Oh yeah, elevating experts.
Yeah, that was that was a failure like and she’s like, oh, they’re really good and.
I’m like Nah.
Failed and you’re like, don’t **** on it, right?
Finally, I had an ally they didn’t think.
I wish it.
I’m just finished and I’m ship not and again today Andy.
I’m shipping out of.
The game now.
You know, I mean, you’re both.
You’re both right, they are.
They are good, but they didn’t work the way that we wanted them to work.
The old impostor came knocking at our doors.
Hello, I’m impostor.
Yeah, yeah, sound like a.
Lot like my mum in this though.
Yeah, impostor came knocking and said.
Why would you promote yourselves, hasn’t?
Asked me impostor needed to knock first sorry impostor came knocking and said.
Why would you promote yourselves as available to provide those services when you can’t even get this right?
Ooh ooh watch.
That’s all true.
That we don’t need to bring up with their psychologists anymore.
But how does it present?
For us now and in other ways.
Well, apparently I still need to bring it up with our mentor.
This week so it can’t be that old trauma.
So the psychologist that we say, you know?
I I suppose.
It’s it’s about our.
Perceptions, isn’t it though?
Like how we’re viewing ourselves.
So these perceptions?
Of how we are, you know like yeah, others will view me as oversensitive in.
Seizing contact with a family member that I’ve spoken about in previous episodes and through the timeline of this story, I’d started out with my dad died.
And then some problems within the family and a part of that was a relative.
Who said some pretty awful stuff to me, but there is an opinion amongst some ranks that you know, I’m just oversensitive.
You know, like it will blow over it’s water under the bridge.
That kind of stuff, but those people at the time weren’t across the full details of what was actually said because I actually chose herself delayed, I chose.
Not to disclose those details of that interaction, so in effect that other person opinion of me isn’t relevant and I don’t feel that the.
Effects of that really are anybody business because what they said to me is what they said and the action I took was to say, well, if that’s how you feel about me then sayonara.
It’s not a school punch up that I’m inviting people to, you know, grab the popcorn floor.
It’s not something that I’m looking to get, you know, gang of allies for or anything like that.
It’s it’s done, you know, like I.
I sincerely don’t regret stopping that relationship.
You know it was a sad but necessary ends to really.
What was an abusive relationship?
Yeah, I mean there have been suggestions that maybe down the track I should reconcile or think ever forget, you know it’s family.
Ignores the part of the story that really isn’t their business to know.
From our own well being.
For a long time I wasn’t prepared to explore it.
I I have since.
We’ve talked about it at length things.
Oh, weaved, we’ve talked about it.
My therapist and I have talked about it and you know other people that I’m close to.
I’ve I’ve talked about it to get my own bearings on the situation.
And I’ve made my.
Peace with it, so I hadn’t.
Been prepared to explore it for a long.
Time, but I.
Did and the conclusion that I came to is.
The one that that remains.
Turning that mirror on yourself, it’s easy to blame somebody else.
Ah, so easy to blame somebody else.
But how long do you stay the victim?
How long, yeah.
Yeah, that’s right, there’s going to be a boundary somewhere.
You know it?
I’m not out to go out and and lay blame.
Or, you know, I mean, there are interactions over the years where I was equally as culpable and I’m not proud of that.
But also I I don’t feel like that there’s an opportunity to have a proper two way conversation about that where.
There blame wouldn’t come back on to me.
I’m not interested in laying blame, but I’m also not interested in carrying all the blame either.
I think that that’s a really good distinction that it’s, you know, don’t carry the blame yourself, or either don’t use that to torture yourself.
Don’t shoot on elevating experts every week because you’re blaming yourself for it.
Not working out.
I’m talking about me.
So let’s go round to the perceptions you’ve heard about yourself and your value, because when you left that radio gig after 20 years in radio you you got to a position of success.
You were in a metro market and you were quite popular, but then you come in to to doing this kind of stuff now and Panagia feel.
Like I can jokingly shift on elevating experts.
Because I have to, I have to make it a joke because otherwise the truth is that it hurts, right?
Like that I made something that I think didn’t work and.
But it says that they will write.
It says that anybody who didn’t believe in me or anybody who laughed at the idea that you know I could have a business making content and maybe they were right that it backs up that kind of fear inside of me that you know, maybe I’m.
I made a mistake.
Can I put my logic add?
On for a.
Minute, no, this is my trauma, how?
My illogic hat.
I know, I know, but to come out of a career where you had a machine behind you with hundreds of people working in a whole network for the success of the programs and the history of that station and the history of that network to come into a situation where you’re starting a business from scratch and making content and.
Nobody knows about it because you haven’t got the power of that marketing machine behind you, it it seems.
Or that you can see that there’s a failing on your part.
Yeah, but I think it seems probably seems odd as an outsider that I I could be those things that you’re saying that I was number one morning announcer in a capital city, Australia’s third largest market and still feel like a failure like that wasn’t enough like I was still worthless and had no value. Yeah, ’cause I left that.
Job feeling that I was worthless.
And wasn’t valued and didn’t value myself.
And when I wanted to start something for us, I think, you know we could have started.
Or I could have started welcome change media years before I ever did, because I can remember talking to a friend about this kind of concept that I wanted to do.
This is the kind of story I wanna tell this.
Is the kind of connection I want to make with people I.
Want to be honest and.
Authentic and I want to be able to do things that matter to me and hopefully will help other people who you know if I can put my story out there.
As difficult as that might be, sometimes that I I, I know because of the the skills that I’ve earned and maybe the natural talent that I have that you know it’ll be able to connect with people.
And it might be able to make things easier for people in ways that I didn’t have it easier for me and I so I could have start.
I recognize that years before we did this, and so I could have done it then.
And instead I have a shed full of jewelry that is in little plastic boxes.
I suppose even the jewelry business was a bloody distraction from the things that really mattered.
’cause at the jewelry business as well was I need a backup plan because one day radio is not going to work for me.
And then what am I going to do?
So maybe if I start a little jewelry business?
Like it’ll be enough cash that I can survive when it doesn’t work for me anymore, and then I can work on something else.
I can work on the thing that really mad.
Yes, and I.
Didn’t put those pieces together until now, yeah.
Giving up on the jewelry, I suppose at that same time was giving up on that idea that if I could make something that actually matters to me because there’s a really big fear in.
That is that.
If I tell people about the things that I’m doing, if I make something that really matters to me.
And they tell me that.
It’s **** or they don’t listen to it.
That hurts and it sucks.
Because I’m actually doing something.
That I truly care about.
And so I think I ship on elevating experts because it was a first attempt that we did to do something for us outside of a a model that I’d I’d had.
Yeah, because I think it didn’t work.
Because it didn’t get the outcome we wanted.
’cause it didn’t get the outcome that we wanted.
I think it’s easier to make fun of that than to admit how much that hurts, because the truth is life still feeling at.
I can sit at.
The top of that thing that you call success and feel inadequate ’cause it wasn’t good enough.
I didn’t make it far enough in that career.
I never ended up on the Billboard.
I didn’t make it to the top.
We didn’t own the audience and dollars starting, welcome, change media and.
Elevating experts that I hope for in the first few months.
Then I thought, you know, give it six months, and then we’ll be having like we did the spreadsheet.
We did the magical spreadsheet. I think like we buy month six we were like we were bringing in like 200 grand.
All we do.
The spreadsheet yes.
A month by.
Oh my God was so rich.
Yeah, spoiler alert.
We did not.
We did not.
No, no where near it.
It was fun, was fun to.
Dream because, you know, dreaming is free.
As somebody wise, he said in a sketch earlier.
In today’s speed I, I mean I.
Didn’t mean to bring this part down.
I think this was this was a part of the episode where we say that you know we’re going to take other peoples perceptions out of it.
I don’t know that we can take other peoples perceptions.
Out of it until we acknowledge how much those perceptions have affected our perceptions of ourselves.
Without going very matrix meter on this concept.
Well, you know it comes back to that whole thing of, you know.
We don’t live.
In a vacuum, because we both of this before we started welcome change Media had only ever worked for other people.
Start living a vacuum.
You’d only ever kind of moved up whatever ranks we were in in those jobs, we had something to be able to use as a reference.
Point, you know whether it would.
Is coaching from a leader or feedback from staff to kind of guide lists and we had pies we.
Their KP eyes, which had KPI, is set by somebody else.
We could tell if we were on the.
Right path because.
We knew, OK, well, there’s the mark we’re aiming for.
Got it or oh, we missed it, but maybe it was because of this or that.
And when you’re starting your own business, who’s making the KP eyes?
Miller yes, no ones making the KP eyes and so unless you make the KPI’s. My inner impostor in a perfectionist probably maybe made realistic APIs with you but secretly had her own set of KP’s that was like it’s gonna do this and it’s gonna.
We’re going to have.
You know 200.
Always do you working against me.
We’re gonna make heaps of money and we’re going to have.
Heaps of listeners.
And **** everybody that didn’t believe in me.
You know, but.
We live in a vacuum up.
No we don’t.
However the positive in this is that not have found this success in that.
That I would have hoped for to be enough to call it success, even though now I wonder where that line in the sand is, because I feel like probably wouldn’t matter what I did.
I’m gonna default to it’s not good enough.
Honestly, like it’s probably my default setting that I have to work on, but what did come out of that series is that.
We were able to connect with people we were.
Able to learn.
And perfect the craft of what we do.
It also was a bit of a giant.
Distraction for us.
Well yeah, but also you know there are other ways to get paid other than money you know.
And money is probably king when it comes to.
Paying bills gotta say?
Yeah I do love I.
Love that quote Suzanne gave us that quote.
That there’s other currencies than money.
Yeah she did.
And I think you know the big currency out of elevating experts was that we really became good at putting episodes together.
We became really good at drafting things of batching things, of getting things done in in batches so that we could then free up time for the next thing and the next thing.
In the next.
Thing so it gave us a lot of things and a lot of those things actually became themes in episodes themselves.
So yeah, that’s that’s why I prefer to shoot on elevating experts.
You say though, you fertilize it any way you like.
I will no.
Look like it’s actually good.
It’s a good series, it’s just maybe it was the right series at.
The wrong time.
Maybe we worked on that because we were afraid to work on this because we were afraid to put our vulnerability.
And like if we.
If we could sit on.
A podcast like we told Hugh that we did and not released elevating experts because we were afraid that people wouldn’t like it.
When all we were doing was trying to give people pointers on how to use a microphone, et cetera, et cetera.
Then we needed to go through that experience to get ourselves to the point where we could release re frame of mind where we where we sit here for two hours and tell you about the deepest, darkest, dark deep secrets and put.
Bearing our souls.
This out in the world.
Yeah, and I think you know along the way we.
Used the excuse of.
Well, we’re still interviewing for reframe.
It’s going to take awhile.
We just need to focus on this a bit longer.
You could have actually started storyboarding well before we did.
We could have been doing a lot of.
This this probably could have been released.
Probably a good three or four months earlier than it actually started in my honest opinion, IMHO.
Yeah, because that what that stands.
For yeah I am HO.
I am a chair in my oldest opinion.
God, I’m old.
I can’t believe you don’t know that I can’t believe I.
I didn’t know that.
I don’t know, maybe it.
Knew that and you didn’t.
Goes back to ICQ like BRB. No one uses that anymore.
Maybe when they died but.
You see, I see.
No one needs is here with him.
I owe anymore, including red food.
I, I suppose the good thing about elevating experts is because hardly anyone listened.
No one actually shat on.
It with their words except.
For me, so it’s not.
And we could recycle the shade out of it.
Ha ha ha ha.
We’re going to release that sucker.
Under another name and you guys.
Are going to be like wow.
This is great new.
Content I love this yeah.
Wow The funny thing.
Is with with these perceptions that we have brimming over the edge from ourselves, it almost becomes like self fulfilling prophecy.
Because then people start it, we start to hear those very thoughts and words echoed in the people around you.
And you start to attribute your.
Failures to those critics like I mean.
There was a time where I would have said to myself.
Elevating experts failed because I was fat and you somehow ludicrous that is, but.
Wow, that’s quite the leap.
There was, there was.
A time I reckon a version of me would have blamed something not working on being a fat girl.
Well, you’re saying for me, you know like I sounded too gay, so therefore it wasn’t it wasn’t any good ’cause the senator gay can’t sound too gay.
I’m being a fat girl, yeah?
Sorry, I I’ll I’ll try not to sound too gay.
So you know, like I, I suppose the bottom line is that we just really need to take a good hard look at ourselves and stop listening to these stupid bloody things that they’ve entered our psyche over all of these years and decades.
You know, like we’ve got to find a way to smash through those those limiting beliefs.
We gotta find a way to recognize.
No matter who they came from, whether they came from somebody else, whether they still come from somebody else, or whether we picked up something that somebody else told us and ran with it and turned it against ourselves as a weapon.
Gotta let it go.
None of it is helpful.
As the Bee Gees once sang, it’s only words.
I mean that reference is even older than the tidy trays.
And it’s older than both of us combined.
Someone else we spoke to in this series.
CEO and founder of Leisure scheme Daphne Copitas.
She told us about her own courage and strength when she faced.
Other peoples words.
And definitely in her true storytelling way, gave us advice like only definitely can.
I’m not gonna allow anybody to make me hate them.
Yeah, and my mom would say that to me too.
There’s ancient Greek sayings that say whether they you know whether somebody hates you or they love you, but you don’t want is for them to like.
Feel sorry for you, right?
Because whether someone hates you or not, it’s really not your.
It’s not our business, it’s their business.
Not that yeah.
OK, and what they say about me is also none.
Of my business.
OK, at the end of day if you don’t like me seriously, switch off.
I don’t focus on the way I’m looking to them.
I focus on learning my can’t.
Can’t, so I’m standing up there now in front of all these young students.
And yes, I’m a mum and I have a mother who’s dementing she had just been.
This was just before her diagnosis of frontal temporal dysfunction of the brain, so it wasn’t great time for me, but I was focused on getting my content right, focused on me.
Focus on your own stroke so.
When you are rowing, you focus on your own stroke.
And that’s how you propel forward when you’re on a bike.
In your cycling, you have to focus on where you’re going, ’cause if you don’t, you fall off.
So like all the different activities that I’ve done, work as a dancer when you’re performing in a group, you have to focus on your routine.
I can’t focus on what someone else is doing.
I can see you from a peripheral vision peripheral.
But I’m not going to look at you front on.
So I stood up in front of everybody.
And not older than.
All of them, and I focused on my content.
My personality came out and.
I did well.
So you know, I just I think it’s a matter of saying I’ve only got one life.
I’m going to make sure that I live.
It each day and like I said my hat my goal everyday.
Is to be happy and my happiness comes from setting myself goals and wanting to learn something new.
So, had Daphne listened to those voices that?
Jeering early on she might not have had a successful career that she’s had.
I mean, she’s a CEO and founder.
She’s had, I think it was an Amazon Hot list product like huge deal.
She’s been on his daddy is jealous.
Devin has been places she’s worked internationally and here he is.
She worked for.
1 successful woman.
From she did design perfumes for was it Carlos and Patty?
I think she should definitely have done.
She’s worked with some names.
Here she will.
Is Trump so cool stuff?
But for biased she would for the Bay Group because they do all of the the chemicals Thyestes for the perfumes and stuff like she’s, she’s pretty switched on his our deaf.
Yeah, and if not for the naysayers.
Definitely told us that she.
Might not have been.
Able to use their energy to fuel.
Her wonderful life.
At the time when I walked in there, because bearing in mind you.
Know I’m a.
Dancer I want to perform.
I love fashion.
I’d walk in there with red suits, red nail Polish, and black hair, and they used to call me.
The nanny, of course.
OK cool right.
But like the money that you.
Know the nanny.
Yeah yeah. Pan frying.
And then add on television.
OK, OK right?
Thank you for your friends.
Well, just point, I didn’t care.
Right, but the lecturers.
Will like you know you don’t look like a scientist.
You don’t conduct yourself like a scientist.
You can’t wait.
You need to wear safety shoes.
You’re wearing my heels.
OK, so you know what they won the safety shoe debate.
Yes they did.
I end up wearing safety shoes in the labs, but I didn’t take off my flamboyant red suits.
In the end I would give them my assignments and they would say, oh, you know who helps you do that because they assumed that.
Being the way I was that I didn’t have.
Brains, you say these prejudices?
It’s silly, like I didn’t.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
I didn’t fit in the scientific norm.
It’s just silly.
It it’s a limit, it’s limiting on their part, not on mine, but in the end.
And I remember once there was a subject called reaction kinetics which is physics and chemistry, and one of the guys next to me said or, you know, we’ll never pass this one.
It’s a 15% pass rate. Now that is enough to drive me mad. OK, tell me that I can’t do something.
And I then I go.
Thank you for that.
That’s exactly what I needed.
I needed you to tell me that I can’t do that now.
Watch me now.
I never got back to the people.
Well, I never got back to these people to say Gee, thanks for that. Because of you I got 95% and I remember the lecturer walking in saying Daphne dimitriadis reaction kinetics stand up 95%. I bleached it. I couldn’t believe it but I.
Never told anybody.
That behind the scenes.
More brain was hemorrhaging.
Like OK, but it’s like any performer, no performer tells you how hard the rehearsals were when you’re going with somebody.
Perform your message.
Prized by what they are doing, how they’re entertaining you, how they’re taking into a different place.
It’s exactly the same thing.
They don’t sit back telling you just how hard this was to make this performance look as great as what it was.
The same as this, I didn’t tell anybody, so when I finished the from you TS and my science degree, the first job worked as a chemist.
Bible which was quite a big more skin care beauty company at that time.
And then after a year I was offered a positioning littering chemistry at university to the engineers.
And again I didn’t change.
They actually also made me student representative and I never changed to fit.
Into their norm.
Of what a scientist is supposed to look like.
Like B.J. Thomas.
Would say words don’t come easy, you’ll be.
B.J. Thomas I thought he.
Was raindrops on their head.
Who was words then?
Something it’ll come to me, it was words.
Not easy, it won’t come easy.
No, it’s not easy stopping D, something something more than BGS, but it was something in the second.
It wasn’t the IT wasn’t a BJ’s
Name was like a letter.
It was Fr David if our Dave.
I knew their letters in there somewhere.
Sorry like like Fr.
Yes, are David.
David would say in another dated reference for this show even older than the Bee Gees and tidy tidy trays.
Bored dated references and your grandmothers will.
Fr David would say I never did put that ghost dog in the show notes. I’m sorry.
Forgot about Ghost dog in the show.
We’ve got a.
Lot of disappointed listener.
That’s why our listeners have dropped.
That’s why they don’t come back.
That words don’t come easy, especially.
Words that you’re reclaiming.
Yeah, that’s the word that a lot of people don’t enjoy.
There’s a word that I say that you don’t enjoy.
I know there is.
Raise itself referentially.
When I call myself a poofter.
I hide it.
I know you and.
Unreal, I hate it.
I hate it.
Why you hate it?
What’s your relationship?
With puff to ’cause.
I mean, if anyone is going to have a.
Relationship with the world poofter.
It’s going to be the poofter.
Because I think it’s it’s something that’s been.
You know wielded as a weapon and.
It has awful ugly, so let me let me take you back to 1995.
Into the hot tub.
Yeah yeah, not publish a machine so and I’m not saying this is particular to this era, but with reference to this word, you know I’d be sitting around in, say, the Aubrey down in Sydney was a great pub.
Used to love going.
To the Aubrey well now.
You’ve mentioned it before, he must have.
I I know.
Really enjoyed it.
I did, I did.
I really, really love the atmosphere there.
It’s a clothing store now anyway, but I’ll be sitting around there with my proof teammates.
And you know, some **** friends and we’ll be having a conversation and we’d be using those words freely because we were reclaiming those words for ourselves.
But if somebody from outside came and called us those things, that wasn’t OK.
But if you know me, it’s quite OK for us.
To to have banter to call ourselves certain things because it takes the hood away from the word in reclaiming that word they can’t hurt me.
With anymore it’s still not OK for them to call me that because they’re not my mate and they’re calling.
It’s the intention, so you say that you have a problem with the word because it’s being used as a weapon, and that’s right.
Completely agree with that.
The way I’ve reclaimed it for myself and used within the people with whom I’m familiar.
And again, it’s not with everybody with him.
I’m familiar because that relative of mine.
That said, awful things to me started series would use that word in a derogatory fashion at me, for example, or that’s probably been harsh because I don’t know whether they actually used it at me, but they would serve.
And they use it at other people.
And I know that because I’ve heard their offspring use that word in reference to other people and I had to pull them up on it.
Words are used as weapons, but also it’s possible to reclaim that for yourself so that you D weaponize it.
Because if I go through life fearing the word poofter or my life.
Then to me that feels silly because it’s a word.
It’s the intention behind the words people use.
People could call me anything else that seems innocuous to somebody else.
But it could still be slanderous, or it could be something that is a weapon as well, so.
I think it’s it’s.
It’s a much bigger conversation when I call myself poofter it, I’m joking, you know, like I’m, I’m actually just saying, yeah, I was a fat proof when I was at school without proof.
Yeah, I think kind of, I suppose a similar relationship around the word fat because there’s a lot of people in the fat community.
Who are you happy to claim the word fat?
You know, fat is just something that you have.
It’s not who you are, it’s it’s.
It’s a literal descriptor.
Something so a lot of people are quite happily, you know, hashtag, fat positive hashtag you know fat girl summer all those things and I.
Do I felt really uncomfortable when I saw, you know, like I’m seeing people labeling themselves as fat, which was a derogatory term that I even copped when I was younger.
Yeah, similar situation.
I am happy to reclaim that I take it back because you’re right like I’m fat.
So what like?
I think you’re going to agree with these.
After a lifetime of having something hurled at you like that, it’s just.
Who gives a?
FCK like fine.
Well, it’s almost.
I mean I am that.
Like I’m going to pull me poster, call me.
Thing yeah, go ahead.
Back and forth to what else do you want to call me?
Go on, what else do you want to say?
Come up with something better than that because.
You know, if.
You come on to my Instagram and you go you fat.
I mean yeah, yeah, yeah, like I am, you’re not trying.
At least you know.
Put in some effort.
Probably some of the meta words that were put in for, you know.
Like the old.
Text with something Instagram posts probably include.
The word fat
Interesting that you.
You also felt uncomfortable when we first started working together in this because I’ve, you know, I’ve been working with that kind of body positive body neutrality.
Fat acceptance space for years because.
As the earlier stories, I was little fat girl and I have done a lot of still a fat girl have done a lot of work in actually going hang on the way that my body is.
Doesn’t have to reflect that the way that I feel about myself and I don’t have less worth because I have more weight.
A number on a scale isn’t actually reflective.
Of my worth as a human.
If you’re going to train somebody differently because there’s that you might as well treat someone differently ’cause they’re black or because they will win, or because of any of these other things are hello exactly.
But they do, yeah.
So the intention behind the word.
It’s just another way to other people, and unfortunately I think that you know things like homophobia is better.
It is, yeah.
It is not gone, it is better, but things like fat phobia is still very much acceptable to participate in the diet culture and you know label someone who’s fat.
Is lazy and like it’s not.
You could report those comments on social media till the.
Cows come home.
As harassment and they never get taken down because it doesn’t breach of policy to call someone out on their body.
But yeah, if you made a I suppose a joke about homosexuality at this point and be like, well, no, that is absolutely discriminatory and they’ll take it down.
Yeah, it’s recognized it’s looking nice category.
Yeah, it’s uh, recognized category and I I don’t.
I don’t think the body shaming is there.
Yeah, and that’s not even, you know, like we, it’s a whole other series talking about but.
Be shaming because it’s not just fat bodies, it’s all bodies, so you know.
Especially like anybody who is other in any way and basically nobody body.
Is anybody business except for the person in that body.
It’s their body and they get to present it and to do whatever they wish with.
It not even whatever they wish with it.
It gets to be however it bees.
Yeah oh we want to say to do whatever they wish with their like you said with the swimsuits, you know like we’ve never been nice to do whatever you wish to actually get in a got damn swimsuit and learn to swim and to actually enjoy the water like people.
Do well now.
I do now I I’m I’m a fatty that takes her ******* fat self to the beach in a bikini and **** you do you know what?
No one died.
No one died from that fatty on the beach in a bikini not.
Fine, you know what happened yet?
The worst that happened was ******** nothing.
’cause people are gutless and don’t say it.
To your face, yeah.
So you know, like we, we talk about reclaiming these words.
You know which which has a power in itself, but also within that.
Not everybody has permission to use those words for us, so it comes down to familiarity and it comes down to permission and it comes down to knowing people.
There are very few people that I mix with now.
That would probably even use the word like I and my friends of that era use it or used it if I meet someone from from that part of my life, we won’t have a bit of a joke about it.
Call each other role for something.
You know, but.
That’s that’s just us.
I don’t hear so much of.
That now and then.
It’s OK, you know that was.
That was my generation.
Current generations got different words.
They’re claiming for themselves, and I think it’s important for people to be able to do that, and to respect that as well, because it’s not about our they’ve reclaimed or we can use it again.
No psycho like you.
Don’t give the cornea.
After because I’ve actually D weaponized it, if you still want to use it as a weapon, you’re still a *******
There’s nothing good in that soap is off.
If I’m actually choosing to call myself certain names, you know, ingest or whatever it is ingest now, like I’m not actually being self deprecating.
As a punishment to myself or to get attention, or to say the people you need to pity me because I’ve been ostracized or over like I’ve been through that I’ve I’ve dealt with those traumas.
I’ve actually come out the other side of it alive, thankfully, because a lot of people don’t and that’s the great tragedy.
These words do hurt.
And by reclaiming it, I stopped them, hurting a lot of people don’t get to that stage.
It’s a way that we can work with ourselves to break the whole of somebody else is perception.
As people who are fatphobic, whether they say it or not, still hate fat people.
Whether we stop them from saying the word or not.
You know, people who are homophobic and they still don’t like gay people, whether it’s discriminatory or not.
It doesn’t stop.
Thank you, it doesn’t stop living thinking.
Yet so the power has to be.
What can we do as individuals to not take it on to let go of their perceptions of us, to stop letting their perception of US influence the way that we’re going to live our lives, and how we’re going to feel?
About ourselves and our own self worth.
When it comes down to it, we just need to find a way to stop listening.
To those voices.
Like imagine for a minute.
If someone we spoke to an episode six of the series, Nathan Parker who was actually NSW Young Australian of the Year 2021, had listened to the voices of doubt around him because Nathan always had this dream that he wanted to fly planes and then he was involved in bus crash. Had his arm pinned.
Under the bus almost died.
His hand had to be amputated, which a lot of people could have come along and said, and probably did make you not gonna fly now.
Yeah, and I’m sure there are plenty of people around to support that particular narrative, but in his own way, Nathan got through it and he pushed through that which he told us.
I already felt at that point they had lost that childhood dream twice and I couldn’t afford to sort of walk away at the end of the day when the chips are down.
I couldn’t walk away.
From flying without sort of working out what was possible because I had this this gut feeling deep down that I knew in 1015 years time I’d be kicking myself that I I didn’t give it a.
Shot and see what was possible.
So familiar is very obvious that at that point in time, at the crossroads there’s a very strong pull towards you need to give this a go and and given that you’ve already potentially lost it twice over, give it one last shot and see it is possible, but I think it’s definitely challenge.
It’s it’s particularly these days with so many different things that are going on for for so many of us.
It’s it’s hard to narrow down what is it that we’re passionate about and and how do we find our passion?
How we pursue our passion and and that’s something that I’ve been very.
Talking throughout my life to have had a very clear.
Passion from the start is that what fueled you when people said that you won’t fly again?
It’s so it wasn’t so much proving them wrong, but following your own gut on that that they were wrong.
Yeah, I think for me it was about seeing what was possible.
I I knew deep down I had a sense deep down that I think I can still do this and I was very lucky along the way to have so many incredible people giving you opportunities to try and see if it was possible.
But I mean even thinking back to my hospital room, one of the first things that went up on the wall.
In my room was a picture of the the fighter jet that I had always hoped to fly.
And even in those tough times when it was, I’m struggling to put food in my mouth.
You know, with only one hand.
I look at that and saying, yeah, I’ve already do this to start moving towards that goal and there’s no guarantees that I’d get back there.
And unfortunately I wasn’t able to to pursue that dream in the long run.
But at that point in time that that passion, that dream, and that that goal gave me that inspiration, that motivation to to keep pushing through, no matter how hard things get.
And for some more evidence, not only is it that we don’t need to listen to these perceptions, also, we just need to understand that that’s all they are, perceptions.
They’re not facts.
Yeah, absolutely, and professor of all the preneurship at Latrobe University.
Alex merits we spoke to way back in episode seven, I will say.
Even work for getting that.
I know, but yeah, he made the.
Observation you know when talking about Sr entrepreneurs.
So how do we change that narrative that?
Is that public?
What do you think of the steps to do that?
Like the story of the 1% of the people.
In the garage.
That’s the flashy 1.
How how do we change that narrative to talk more about this?
To empower people who may have said I can’t do that?
I’m too old.
Well, we we try to get it out there.
It’s a wonderful profit.
So we’re trying to get that thing out there.
That’s saying, you know, these late career transitions to self employment are possible.
Well, we’ve got case studies. We’ve got the research already to show that this is the case. That over 30% of all of dropping rivers in Australia or senior entrepreneurs, it’s the highest growing sector. So we’ve got a lot of this.
Data that to.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Support this notion.
And female economy expert just into carbon can see the value in the female economy, so why can’t everybody else?
You know, really work out.
Our population and the number of women are graduated from the university actually outstrips men, and so they’re actually by not making the most of women in in.
Just as an example employment situation, we’re not making the most.
Of the time we have there too.
Make their decisions about business and but not also.
You know on another line.
I’m not actually engaging women in.
The in business as much as we could and should, we are getting better, but it’s still.
Going wrong way to go.
We’re not having influence on the way that we produce products and services, so we actually really tailoring, not necessarily tailing tailoring them to the market.
Yeah, a lot of as I.
Mentioned before or one of.
The way that businesses.
Have been setup is with men in mind and where the products and services are being designed and marketed and delivered is with a male perspective as opposed to a female perspective, so we’re not actually delivering services for do so. Largely we want instances for 50%.
So from an economy comma, Judy.
Pain perspective, you know?
The figure is.
Enormous if we actually tapped into the talent out there.
It’s not being tempted to.
It could have an enormous impact.
On the wealth of our country.
So the antidote to being impacted by other people’s opinions and perceptions is to question them by showing ourselves as much evidence to the contrary that we can.
Yeah, Hugh Kearns.
Explain to us what the true value of feedback, really.
If our aim in.
The feedback is to improve performance or you know what to do that?
Yeah, what you need to do is be much more specific.
It’s not like.
Vague things like it was good, but now and again asking for feedback, you’re probably good and say look, I’m.
Unsure about this.
How did this?
Go why did?
That go, how did you look at specific elements of it and so forth.
So being much more clear.
But I suppose yeah, first.
Well, just be careful about asking the feedback at all you know are you are you genuinely asking or are you going to then?
Hone in on the.
Negative parts like I’ll give you an example in my.
If my line work, I run workshops all the time. I certainly online in the last year or so, and let’s say you have 100.
People in the audience.
Given you talking.
To them and then at the end you.
Know sometimes you.
Have evaluation forms or feedback forms and you know, let’s say 99 people say it was great and one person says that was rubbish. What are you going to focus?
In on for the rest of the day.
The one person says rubbish, which is really unfair.
And So what I do when I get that one rubbish one what I do is I go and look at the 99 good ones and I go.
That person is weird.
They’re wrong ’cause.
Otherwise, you’re focusing on the negatives, and so that’s why one of the strategies I talk about in other workshops and books.
Whatever is having.
What I call.
A brag file or a fact file.
And abrag file means all the evidence.
About things that.
Have gone well.
You know when you’ve done well and so forth.
So then when you do get that one negative, you can go look at the evidence or going on.
Most people thought it was good, so that’s one and again.
In, in your case with your podcast, you know you get.
Hopefully you get lots of positive feedback.
Inevitably, you will get a few people saying no, it didn’t work for me.
It wasn’t so good and what you need to do is look at all the good ones.
And saying on.
Most people thought.
Was pretty good and so that balances.
Up those and so, and we’re not going.
To doing that on the cough for you.
Naturally, you have to actually have things written down to see that to see the evidence because we our.
Brain will will focus in on that one negative one and we forget all the good stuff.
So we don’t have to care about other people’s opinions.
Now we can choose to care about them if they support us, but we can kick the ones to the curb that tear us down.
Even if they’re our own.
Yeah, particularly if they are right.
Even if even if they come from your business partner and Co.
They’re about elevating experts.
I’m still working on it.
It’s still rule, so here’s our Bragg file.
Then because I love this idea of a brag file on where we’re currently at on our journey.
OK, so we have published 4 podcast series 444.
Can you name them?
Elevating experts that entertainment podcast.
Oh, wouldn’t it be 5 though?
’cause we’ve done that Entertainment podcast Brisbane and that Entertainment podcast Adelaide fits climbs and we did Willow tree manner and we did publish that tiny snippet of Brazil laid in re frame of minds.
It’s kind of cheating.
So technically it seeks I.
Suppose if you look at it that way.
And then we did that one episode of Worst Podcast ever that no one actually knows about.
Yeah we did.
But for serious, the serious ones.
Look, I’m happy to say 4 because yeah, there.
Was a Brisbane addition but.
It was all part of the same thing anyway.
Next, we’ve published over 50 podcast episodes across our network of programs.
We have, indeed.
We’ve got regular listeners hello.
Hello, and it’s definitely not zero, and it’s not declining.
Yeah, despite what I said earlier is not declining.
It’s actually inclining.
No, that’s not the opposite.
It is it it is, I suppose, but doesn’t fit, does it, increasing its increasing for some reason people keep giving us good reviews, which is amazing feedback leave feedback.
Doesn’t really, it’s seems crazy.
Thank you, please leave one now please go to your.
Claims in your app.
OK, so I’m going to make a big assumption here and say most people listen via Apple Podcasts might be right or might be not.
Well, I mean, I don’t.
I know so, but I know I know quickly how to do the rating on the Apple broadcast.
If you go to the actual series, not the episode.
This series, sorry friend of mind and Scroll down past all the episodes you’ll see where you can rate.
And that’s where you can leave a five star rating and say how much?
You love us anyway, and.
Apparently you can do the same thing on Spotify, but they don’t actually pub.
Why? Why did they publish?
OK, so we’ve had amazing feedback that’s.
Board, Yep, Tik thank you.
Oh, that’s it.
Uh, we’ve we’ve also made some connections as well through through podcasting as well.
So we’ve got some people who’ve you know, come along and supported us on our journey in one way.
Or another from every prop we’ve sent out we’ve not had.
A single no, I mean.
We did have some ghosts.
They didn’t say.
No, they just didn’t say anything.
I said I wasn’t going to shoot on this.
I think you need to take over Andy.
I’m clearly shooting on us.
Here’s one for you that you can’t shoot on was you’ll be shooting on yourselves.
And will I still happy to?
Louise this, who has managed to overcome her anxiety of going into places she once went.
To in your old role.
Actually used to.
Feel confronted by.
That’s a that’s.
A big thing ’cause remember I couldn’t.
Go past the gate when we.
Started working together.
Yeah, I know.
And I didn’t go very far past the gate and now I can drive all around the place and shoot on.
Things all over the city.
Shooting all over Brisbane.
Yeah, lookout for Louise pool.
What about one for you?
Then you talked yourself to a networking meeting.
Actually more than one networking meeting.
I know it.
You went out and spoke to real painful, but I like do.
It, who even are you?
I mean I I.
I really don’t know.
Being a business owner makes.
You do strange things.
Kind of following on from.
The Louise went back to places that were causing massive anxiety attacks.
The first time I hadn’t, you know I hadn’t been back into the city.
I hadn’t driven away that I used to drive to go to work in it was probably a year and then a publicist who still had my email wanting me to come out and do an interview for.
I mean, you can find it on that entertainment podcast.
It was it was for come from away and.
And you know what?
Shout out to her in case she’s listening but you know her name is cinnamon and that was the first invite that I had had after I left media commercial media to come and do something.
So I did those two interviews and she said to me at the end that it.
It was really nice to hear me interviewing again because I always do such great interviews.
No, it’s lovely.
No, and I felt I felt so valued.
It’s really sweet.
Not only did you know she invite me there, and she introduced me to other people that were there and she liked what I did.
Anyway, thank you cinnamon that actually, like you know, that’s that’s one of those cases of people.
Maybe don’t know how much.
Of an impact that had.
Yeah, I have definitely increased my confidence approaching and initiating people again so I can reach out to someone and say hey you wanna have a chat and feel quite OK about that?
And I’ve reconnected with my love everything I love.
You hated editing when we started.
I did, I said I.
You said I can’t.
I I hate everything I don’t.
Know and I love it.
I love it. It’s.
Great, do you know it felt good the first time that I hit play on that first episode of TP?
The one that I did.
You know backstage at Q pack and it got to the.
And and it said, you know that this is a welcome change media production and I’m like we ******* own that.
No one else, no one else owns our ideas.
That was pretty special.
Hey, I did that exact same feeling here.
We are in that even if no one listens with.
I would say something to put in our Bragg file.
Is that both of us definitely have more skills than we had.
Oh yes, Oh yeah, yeah, like websites.
This time last year.
Yep, I can put together scheduling documents.
Oh, we can both do graphics in Canva and.
You know what?
Else I learned how to use procreate, which is a digital art program and made our re frame of mind art with.
Multiple layers among the.
Apple pencil you?
Bloody well love.
I do it, I do and I have enjoyed it.
I’ve like taken all those art skills that I used to have when I used to paint in Darwin, which I think I think we spoke about in the previous episode or they didn’t paint for ages and I’ve adopted those and I like started doing digital art and I.
Really like it even.
Though Andy didn’t like the drawing I did of him, I did.
I did a.
Drawing of Andy and he’s he’s like, do I look like that?
Maybe we should let the patrons decide.
I’ll put it up there with the ghost dog.
I mean, you were very.
Add my reaction to it I I was trying to be nice but.
Don’t let other people perceptions get you down, I mean.
But all the other work I love.
Clearly it’s about me.
Not you, he clearly had some terrible perceptions, but I said to myself, I said self.
That ****** doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
His face does look like that in real life.
And then I removed his hair from the picture and I gave him funny lips and I’ve left.
Out for this unit.
And now every time I turn on my iPad and see his drawing that I spent hours on and he hated.
Oh, he looks stupid.
You know people never like the sound of their own voice or the look.
Of their own space in the photographs.
I know we have an elevating experts episode about.
That that no one’s heard.
We do because he should all.
Over it, we’re better at networking.
Than ever before.
I would say we’re not hiding anymore, which is nice.
We have new people we’ve met in the last 12 months that we’re actually.
Working with because lovely hello.
We’ve had new.
People we’ve met in the last week that.
We’re actually working with hello.
Ah, people have been wowed by our presentations.
When we’ve prompt them for businesses, even if they haven’t bought anything from us, they’ve gone.
That’s a great presentation.
They have, yeah, and that’s always lovely to get.
That feedback would be nice if they hadn’t ghost this, but.
But no no no.
But I I I.
Think that their feedback was sincere because you could see in their face that they actually really, really appreciated what we’ve done.
Do you know?
What, uh and not on this list of things?
That we’re reading from.
Another thing that we’re really I.
I think we should be really proud of is that one of those people who ghosted us like 6?
It’s ago we had the audacity to actually call and call them out of the blue like 2 weeks ago.
I mean they they ghosted us again.
To be fair, they did ghost us again.
Again, Yep, they double grocers ’cause I send an email as well.
The triple goes to this now, but.
Yeah, if you wanna shoot or anything.
It’s going to be on the people who ghost.
For us to go OK, we’ve been rejected and ghosted.
Let’s try again.
OK, we’ve been rejected and ghosted.
That’s a pretty sassy move, really.
Dot dot dot six months later, ****** we’ve been rejected and ghosted well, what harm can we have for trying again?
I mean, sure, we’ve been rejected and ghosted again, but I think the audacity is something we should be proud of.
Yeah, I’m with you there, sister.
Think that that audacity is definitely something that we’ve actually earned.
We’ve earned that audacity.
Finally, we can act like the middle aged white men that we are.
We wrote that awesome complaint letter.
Still haven’t received it complaint yet though.
So if you want a copy of that letter, feel free to.
Complain about our conflict.
Feel free to complain exactly, you’ll get it within digital signature.
We put together some pretty bloody efficient processes.
Overall, I’ve got to say I think when it comes to that.
I mean, we’re funny who would have thought we would have made a podcast about mental health and our deep dark secrets and draw more funny.
And make people laugh because people love and not add us.
And sometimes that is yeah.
Well, maybe they do.
It still comes out.
The spirit, but definitely people are laughing with this, which is nice.
It’s nice to be able.
To have a laugh.
I think we’re open minded and I think we’re kind just not to ourselves sometimes or sorry, that’s just me.
I’m talking about again.
Shipping on yourself.
She’s not myself.
You gotta take a dump better beyond myself people.
Can see that we genuinely.
Want to help?
That’s the feedback that we get you.
Know that we deliver this from the heart.
And we do we.
Come into every episode wanting to share our personal story.
And it’s not because we want to do that to validate ourselves or to to seek attention.
It’s because that we think that our story is really a normal special.
Anybody else is I’m speaking for myself here.
Yeah, like I, I think that the stories that we’re telling could be the story of anybody, and the great shame is that a lot of other people who have these stories don’t come out of it, so.
Oh, and you know if if us sitting here doing what we do and say what we say can help someone to not feel alone and to let someone know that actually I’m not the only one who’s feeling like this.
I I feel like I’ve done something good.
And even going through this brag list, which could sound like, look at us.
We’re so good.
I mean it.
Is a bit look at us, we’re so good.
You gotta put yourself in a bag phone because there.
Are plenty people alone.
We do and also it might help you to see the things that you’re doing that are good because you don’t have to have a $200,000 month to make a difference.
Yeah, absolutely. I look forward to our first $200,000 month.
Do you know what we did?
Receive though, an offer of ******
Someone wanted to pack someone, someone someone is someone is, someone is a very large adult store, a very large corporate company.
Who wanted this?
To pay to have me talk about self gratification.
Which is fine because I’m all about body neutrality but fun.
So fashion, yeah.
Nothing against ************ or anything like that.
No, but they wanted to pay us in dill dose not money.
Can’t take fill those to the bank.
But you know, at least.
Two minutes to the bank.
We were offered compensation so.
Hello origin energy.
When you take a due.
Date for payment this month?
No ah well.
You have fun too.
You scored an interview on Somebody else’s podcast because you had something.
Interesting to say.
Why didn’t someone else cared what I had to say?
What’s this next one I?
Don’t know what that is.
Well, that was the time that I actually arranged a meeting, which I never have done 12 months before with somebody local.
He cold called somebody.
I cold called somebody and they said yes.
I’m happy to speak to you as far as it went, but it’s all about the process with some of this stuff.
You know, as a sales person, you can speak to dozens of people before someone.
Connects with what you’re selling and it’s not necessarily because he just gave him a hard sell.
Because you build relationships with people and you actually then find out whether there’s something useful in their relationship or not.
Sometimes we stop ourselves from even getting to that point of conversation by saying we’re not good enough.
So for me to actually call this person say, hey, I’ve got an idea.
Would love to have a chat show about.
It it was a really big deal and it was great.
Good experience, so would I think that person firm think smiles for VR chat.
Actually, I think that we have grown so.
Much in their audacity to like.
I mean, we, we’ve been creatives, we’ve been creatives.
Well, I’ve been a creative all my working life.
I’ve not actually been the one that’s gone out and had to sell me.
Someone else has sold my talent and the audacity that we’ve had to take on this philosophy of ****** We’re just gonna act like.
Any other middle?
Aged straight white men.
And just, you know, expect the doors to open for.
It’s I mean it’s.
It’s it’s a philosophy.
It’s not an easy philosophy ’cause we have been, you know, ghosted.
A few times.
But actually by doing that by literally going.
Oh, you know what?
I’m just as worthy as anybody else of this person.
Time and attention.
We’ve landed some really big meetings with some really big people and.
You know, like we are, we have some upcoming projects at this point in time that could only come from us previously daring to have the audacity to approach.
People being knocked back or ghosted and, and instead of going, we failed.
I’ll just go back to the shop.
It’s alright, let’s go back to the shop.
I’m just going.
Just put the put the podcast in my shed next.
To the jewelry.
Yep, now you get up and do.
We said not.
Do it again.
Do it again because it’s not always going to be no.
And this time we’ll do it a little bit differently and see if that works, and if that doesn’t work.
We’ll do it a little bit differently again.
So now we have.
Client meetings on a regular basis.
I know they had was that that’s fine.
We have a minty who would’ve thought?
Fire and we have a mentor which is lovely.
Yes, I’m on a board for mental health and fashion charity.
You are, yeah.
I’m a board member thanks to him.
You are a board member.
Just seemed to saying more women should get on boards and I said yes why women should get on boards and so I did.
And here’s another woman on a board.
So perfect, yeah, well done you, that’s great no honestly like that’s a really big really step for you personally and in in your career.
Thank you yeah.
Yeah, we were judges for the Australian Podcast Awards.
Never have thought that I would have the audacity.
Tell other podcasts that’ll do it.
To click on a link, yeah, I know.
OK, but I did.
OK, how about this one?
One of my favorites we in our approach for guests for re frame of mind.
Approached a unidentified celebrity who’s that, who used to host a popular reality TV show.
Shall be named.
Huh, they said we would love to chat if.
You pay me because they thought we.
Were successful enough to have money.
The other pay them.
Like pitch weren’t even paying ourselves.
We do percent well.
We do present well I’ve gotta gotta give us that.
Yeah, OK, so I mean fake it till you make it it.
I mean, she obviously thought we made it so she did.
I mean, we just gave away gender.
Then but Yep.
Well then you know.
That person did.
That person did.
We’ve spoken to many more amazing people for this series as well, and it’s it’s really lovely to think that you’re going to get to meet all of them as the season continues to unfold as well.
So many amazing people.
Like it’s aren’t mad if you.
I think that the guests we’ve spoken to so far are great and they are.
Then there’s more of the same caliber coming so.
You know to love though.
Is that we’re choosing the focus on our mental health more like.
Genuinely, we’re not hey let’s.
Hey, let’s do a podcast about mental health where we just talked to people about mental.
Health, but they don’t.
Actually follow through with anything and we’re still ******** 4 years from now, like we’re working on it.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
It is it’s at the heart of what we’re doing of our business model is actually tying professional growth and personal growth together.
And we’re doing it.
We’re actually in the in the.
In the process, it’s actually a process. It’s not an end point, it’s not get to the end of every frame of mind series one, and BQ that with your mental health problems. No, because number one.
The word problem is a problem #2 mental health. The journey is on a destination. You know we need to make sure that we look after ourselves and and take good care of ourselves in each other.
All the time.
And we don’t live in a vacuum.
Andy, I think you know actually getting that truly getting that concept for me has been.
No we don’t.
Uh, uh, monumental part of this, because it’s been easy for me in the past to beat myself up and say I should do better than this in my mental health blah blah blah blah blah.
But actually, to get to a point where I recognize I don’t live in a vacuum and there are external things that are always going to influence me.
And it’s not about.
Having the perfect skills all the time, it’s about navigating the very real world that we live in with that.
Really well, I don’t know if.
You if you can relate.
To this, but I remember when I was in.
Some jobs as a leader and I would.
Go to training sessions, leadership transitions and that.
Might run for a day or two.
And within those training sessions, you get new skills.
You feel great, you’d workshop it, you know, role play it, and by the end of it, you feel fantastic.
Yeah, I’m going to go out to the floor on Monday and do XY zed get to the floor Monday and reality hits and those same old unsupportive kind of actions, behaviors, beliefs, whatever.
Bulk roll back up.
And it was always felt so difficult to implement anything of value and broader.
That’s probably impostor syndrome as well.
The thing here is that we’re actually we’re in the process while we’re talking through these things in these episodes.
UM, that’s a very cute photo of your cat.
That’s right, thank you thought bladesinger that she’s on the.
Yeah, all all on the yeah the desk where we’re recording yeah, put in our Patreon next to that photo of you that you didn’t.
Like the picture OK?
Done, I guess.
The point is, we’re actually exercising this along the way, so it’s like a muscle that we’re actually building as we go along, so we’re having these conversations, but I’m also noticing actions that I do day today now that support me in protecting myself.
So there are things that.
I will now do and say to stand up for myself if I feel like somebody is acting inappropriately or you know, speaking inappropriately to me.
I don’t have that slide anymore and that is massively apart of all of the conversations that we’ve been having in making this.
So you know I’ve had support and advice and that kind of stuff from counseling before and all that kind of stuff.
But the point is, similarly, with those training sessions at work, you get out of those sessions.
And then it becomes difficult.
To get traction with stuff like that for me, the value in having these conversations is it becomes normal to talk about this kind of stuff and then it becomes easier to then say something with something isn’t right.
Normalizing the conversation around mental health means that you know I can go to a therapist.
And now I can actually start to think about more things to work on, if that makes sense rather.
Then going with a problem and focus on that for so long because it takes a long time in that context for me to break down those kind of patterns and behaviors.
But I suppose this is being a really long, protracted conversation about specific things and what it’s doing.
For me, this is about me.
It’s actually helping me to make different and better.
Choices for myself and I think that if we can normalize mental health conversations with each other in general, not just listening to a podcast or making a podcast.
Us please go see a therapist.
Go see psychologists or psychiatrists because all of those things help talking about mental health in whatever context is really helpful.
And if we can also normalize it in everyday conversation then there will help us all to make better choices for ourselves and for each other.
And it’s all about mental health.
Like when people talk about mental health in a lot of context.
I think they just mean it like we aren’t talking about mental illness.
We’re only talking depression, anxiety.
You know schizophrenia, bipolar, anything like that, but mental health is everything that we think and feel and how the world affects us and how we see ourselves in the world.
And to think that the things aren’t related is maybe naive and wishful thinking.
Because it’s it’s all related and it’s all mental health.
And so kind of similarly.
I’m not on our list, but you know, I think off that as well that one of the things I’d like to brag about.
Is that probably for the first time in my life?
I feel like I’m me and I’m living authentically.
I’m not afraid to be me.
I’m not holding anything back anymore.
I’m comfortable having open and honest conversations with people even when they’re uncomfortable in.
Expressing boundaries and remember a year ago, or you know when we started working together again, like how hard?
God, it would be for me to talk about anything emotional and be like no, we can’t talk about that.
No, I don’t want.
I don’t want to talk about that like I wanted to do a series about mental health, but I also grinded.
Didn’t want to talk about my own trauma or feel those things because I was so I’d made a life where I just kept swallowing down my.
Own feelings and now we can talk about things.
And not just, it’s not just you like it’s.
I can talk about things with other people.
I have other friends now.
We spoke to the you know, business mentor that we’ve found like 2 weeks ago and I was telling us something.
And we haven’t.
Even spoke to her all that many times.
And I I’m just telling you the honest truth.
And when I start to cry about something and these are emotions.
I repressed and could never have expressed 2 years ago, so if we get paid in other currencies than money and we do get paid in other currencies and money, then putting our personal growth into the Bragg file is invaluable.
Yeah, it is. It’s priceless.
Yeah, like MasterCard.
Yeah, which priceless.
So I hope that helps people put together their own Bragg file, because it doesn’t always have to be skills and it doesn’t always have to be achievements that other people can see.
It can be anything that matters to you.
And you know, even if you want to keep it private, which you know we’ve kept, we haven’t told anybody this Bragg file until now.
You don’t have to tell anybody.
We’ve just read through it, so apart from each other, so it’s something that is for you and it’s something that you can.
It takes some pride in for yourself, you know, and if you want to share it with somebody.
If you’ve got a bag full of your own or you want to make a break for like we’d love to hear about it, we won’t broadcast it.
Yeah, just tell us.
But if you feel confident sharing it with us, then we’d we’d love to see it, because it’s really important to acknowledge that great stuff.
As well we we.
Talk a lot about the stuff that’s brought us down over years, but.
There’s a lot of good stuff too, and it’s really.
Important to shine?
A light on that because if we don’t then we stay in the dark place.
So we’re about a third of the way through our first chapter now, in this story called.
Re frame of mind.
I think the difference compared to when we started out is that we’re.
Now aware of.
The voices that have an impact on us and how?
Well, we’ve started choosing to believe in ourselves and.
Our ideas now.
And we’ve connected with our own sense of self worth and our own personal why?
So next time I re frame of mind number one, the best selling small business author Andrew Griffiths helps us to understand the benefit of really valuing ourselves and as business owners.
Charging what we’re worth.
The challenge is often that a lot of people feel that they need to build their business that others expect them to build, and that can be where other people expect them to build a giant business or a big tech startup that they sell for a billion dollars.
Or, you know.
To build a law firm or to build.
This or build that but.
It’s not really what they want to do.
We’ve been hearing our story.
And now we really want to.
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You can also contact us via re frame of mind.com dot AU with your stories or suggestions for future topics.
We’d like to thank today’s guests for sharing their personal stories and insights.
For more information on any of the subjects, guests or references used in this episode, please see our show notes.
Or reframeofmind.com dot AU.
Re frame of mind is a welcome.
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